NOM

Just found this site and appreciate the kind comments and supportive atmosphere.

I was born and raised in the church and checked off items on the good member checklist. Primary, check. YW, check. Seminary, check. Church attendance, check. Temple marriage, check. Church service (RS President, Primary President etc), check, check, and check. I ended up divorcing my husband for various reasons, but the final straw was that I found out he was home watching porn and playing video games while I was working my butt off to support us. My Bishop signed his temple recommend even though he knew my husband had porn issues. He moved before the SP could sign it. The new Bishop and SP signed his recommend even though my Bishop called them and told them about the porn. First crack. But Elder Uchtdorff told me to doubt my doubts before doubting my faith, so I soldiered on. Everything seemed ok for a few years.

I started dating a really great guy who had also been divorced. Turns out his ex-wife had moved in with a former boyfriend while they were still married. Yet she kept a temple recommend through all of it and was even employed by the church in a job that requires a temple recommend. How was I blessed for doubting my doubts? With another situation that causes doubt! A serious strain on the crack.

I married that really great guy and fast forward a couple of years. His ex requested a sealing cancellation so she could get sealed to her new husband. It went through without a hitch. Where was the personal revelation telling all of these priesthood holders that she was unworthy of a temple recommend and had been for some time? One of the members of the First Presidency had to approve her cancellation. If anyone was able to receive inspiration regarding her deceptive ways, wouldn’t it be them?? Why was I told of experiences in YW where the Priesthood leader received inspiration during a temple recommend interview that the individual was lying and denied the recommend? I even remember stories of individuals who were at the temple and one of the workers supposedly received inspiration that the individual was not worthy to be there. What is the purpose of having recommend interviews if you can just lie and get a recommend anyway? Is the temple really not a holy place?

I spoke to family about it and they just told me they didn’t know, but to lean on their testimony until I got answers. I talked to my Bishop and he told me that I needed to just let it go. No answer has ever come. I’m left thinking that there is no such thing as inspiration. If that’s true, then everything the church teaches is false. Now I’m reading about lots of other doctrinal and historical issues online and down the rabbit hole I go.

Meanwhile, my husband has had a different crack. The letter he received informing him that his sealing to his ex-wife has been cancelled tried to reassure him of his sealing claim to his son. The wording says that his son will be guaranteed “eternal parentage”. That may or may not include my husband. He doesn’t know how to explain it to his son. If your family is a neat and tidy nuclear family, the eternal families doctrine is great. If not, then you’re told it will all be made right in the next life. Seems like that’s a convenient answer to questions that they can’t come up with a good answer for. According to church teachings, aren’t we all guaranteed eternal parentage through our Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother? If that is what is meant by eternal parentage, then why teach the whole eternal families thing? Probably because that sells better in the mission field than the Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother approach.

I haven’t left the church yet. I’m 2nd counselor in the PP and was raised with a healthy dose of obligation and responsibility. I told them I would do this, so I feel obligated to do it. I show up every Sunday just for Primary and go through the motions. I am also struggling to reconcile my feelings about church with my teenage daughter who enjoys church and with ex-spouses who would freak out if the kids didn’t go. I don’t want to jeopardize my relationship with my daughter. Does anyone have any advice for sharing your desires to leave the church with kids who want to go and belong?

Boy, you're in a tough spot!

My first suggestion would be to not let your ex govern your path. Don't let him decide what you do because he wouldn't like something. Then again, I have never been divorced so value that piece of advice with what you paid for it with.

My kids are young 6, 3 and 1, so my situation is waaaay different. There is a thread somewhere on here about what benefits there are to keeping kids involved. My advice would be to just be honest. I have talked to many people who wish that they had included their significant other in their faith crisis, because once it is advanced enough you seem to pass some sort of watershed point where you leave them behind. If you daughter is old enough and you feel confident the church isn't what it says it is, don't waste time expressing that. If she still wants to go fine, but you want a strong independent kid, and hiding info from them doesn't help form that.

Welcome! Hope to hear more from you on here. It's fun seeing new people show up.

Welcome Janus! I'm glad you found us! I look forward to hearing more from you. You are in a tough post! Kudos to you for sticking it out for as long as you have. You have asked some great questions. I divorced and remarried and went through the whole temple sealing cancellation so I could marry my 2nd husband in the temple. I have since resigned from the church which makes the whole sealing thing nil and void since neither myself or my ex are members any more. I have 2 children who are still TBM who I am sure worry about this but the others don't care as they left the church as well. I guess I don't have any answers to the temple question but you might find what you are looking for or gain a better understanding of the temple itself at http://www.mormonthink.com/ under Doctrine - Temple/masonry section.

Welcome to the site, and the NOM family!

Since I didn't get sealed while in the church (did go to the temple), I don't have any words of advice on that - it does sound stressful and so typical of the brainwashing we all had in the church. This is a hugely supportive site, and I am sure you'll get suggestions, support and words of comfort. Please know you'll be in my thoughts!

So glad to have you here, and I hope you post often!

Silver Girl

Janus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:59 amI haven’t left the church yet. I’m 2nd counselor in the PP and was raised with a healthy dose of obligation and responsibility. I told them I would do this, so I feel obligated to do it. I show up every Sunday just for Primary and go through the motions. I am also struggling to reconcile my feelings about church with my teenage daughter who enjoys church and with ex-spouses who would freak out if the kids didn’t go. I don’t want to jeopardize my relationship with my daughter. Does anyone have any advice for sharing your desires to leave the church with kids who want to go and belong?

This is largely the spot I am also in. Being active largely works for me mainly because I have virtually no interest in anything the church can provide other than friends in my ward.

Part of our challenge is that almost nobody who is a believer really wants to understand our point of view. The active proselyting efforts of the institutional church want us talking to everyone, but LDS culture really does not want to listen to others. Many religions share this ironic attitude, but LDS scriptures canonized it in D&C 43:15

Joseph Smith and/or some form of God wrote:Again I say, hearken ye elders of my church, whom I have appointed: Ye are not sent forth to be taught, but to teach the children of men the things which I have put into your hands by the power of my Spirit;

Proselyting is a one way street.

You should realize the unusual advantage you have. Your goal with your children is largely that they become happy and productive adults. Your ex-husband wants your children to become active LDS. These two goals are not necessarily at odds, but your goals are broad and open to many great options. His goal has happiness as a "nice to have" and not "required" in favor of a narrowly focused Mormon lifestyle.

You simply need to encourage your children to find the career and life's work where they feel passionate. Don't focus on trying to make them either Mormon or ex-Mormon. They might still be very happy in the church and maybe they will find joy outside the church. But as long as they find the passion in their life then you will still be happy with them.

Welcome Janus.

Gosh, there's so much of my story I could share with you, but I think it would scare you.

Bottom line, welcome to NOM. In many ways I can commiserate.

My shift in faith was extremely painful. I refuse to intentionally do that to another person.

Having said that, I don't believe, anymore. I don't think my ex believes, anymore. If he does, he sure doesn't act like it. Yet, I love in Utah and he has believed that church conformity is something he can hold over my head. Whatever, both my children are of age, now, and he has absolutely zero room to talk.

I was granted sole custody of our children. When our younger son (who believes) was still under my care, I told him the following:

-I no longer believe
-I haven't for a long time
-I not believing was, I think, part of why I was able to stand up to the bishop
-I told him I haven't talked to him about my issues because I don't want him to lose his testimony, but any questions he has I'll be happy to answer
-I don't rule out the possibility for my testimony to return in a new, drastically changed form, but I don't count on it
-I fully support how engaged he wants to be at church and with the gospel at home, for the most part, won't push (if an activity truly looked fun i'd advocate for it, a little bit)
-This is my deepest, darkest secret. There is nothing worse to find out about me
-This is my story and I prefer to be the one to tell it to whom I want, when I want and how I want. Please respect that.

I then left the door unlocked open for further conversation. He hasn't knocked. I do my best to make as positive comments as possible about the ward or to not have him hear any criticism of the church from me.

We pray. We don't have FHE. He's barely active. He plans to go on a mission.

I sometimes drink tea away from home.

Welcome aboard the good ship NOM, Janus. I hope this is a helpful place for you.

The journey from TBM to something else is a scary, painful, exciting one. I would recommend you explore the cracks in your shelf closely, and if you find they don't cause the shelf to collapse then continue on. If they do cause your shelf to collapse then you can take actions more suited to your new belief system. If you are in the middle of the transition away from TBM belief I would suggest not taking drastic steps yet. But living in a state of a cracking shelf sucks, so I think you should patch it up or break it down. (I may have misread your situation, I can't tell if your shelf is heavy and cracked or lying on the floor)

It sounds like you and your husband are pretty open about your feelings about the church, that is awesome. If it is something your relationship can handle include him in your journey. At some age I would think you can do the same with older children too, but I don't know what age that would be.

I'm afraid I don't have much experience with telling teenage children about changing beliefs, I have young children and still haven't brought up my lack of belief with them.

Janus... That is a hard situation no doubt! And not dissimilar to mine.

When I married my wife, we were both still TBM. We had both been married before, me outside the Church, but her inside the Church. I didn't know how things worked as far as sealings and such, so I didn't worry about it till it came time for us to be sealed. We had a civil ceremony initially, and then applied through our bishop for a sealing a year later.

Here is where it went horribly wrong though. When the DW divorced her first husband, naturally the sealing was never cancelled. When we married in a civil ceremony, naturally the previous sealing was not cancelled. Then our son was born 10 months later, and she was still sealed to the ex. Not long after applying for the sealing, we received a letter from the 1st Presidency that we could be sealed, but that our Son was not going to be sealed to us. That he was born under the first sealing and sealed to the wife's ex.

As you can imagine, I was absolutely livid when I found out about this. There was no way in hell any Church was going to tell me that my natural born son could not be sealed to me because he was sealed to another man. And to tell me that it would all be "made right in the eternities" was so much BULLSHIT I just couldn't even see straight at the time.

So my Bishop at the time sensed that I was in a bad way about this situation and he went to bat for me with the 1st Presidency. My understanding was that several communications had gone back and forth between him and the Stake Presidency and the Office of the 1st Presidency. After several weeks we finally received notice that because the ex had been excommunicated before our Son was born (infidelity on his part), the first sealing was void and our Son could be sealed to us. So this worked out for us in the end, but only because of shear dumb luck. Had that first sealing not been considered void, I'm confident that the 1st Presidency would not have allowed our Son to be sealed.

This is one of 3 events that ultimately led to my becoming a non-believer. For a church that believes so staunchly in the family, they sure can't get their rules and policies straight concerning family dynamics!

Anyway... I share my story because I can so relate to your story! And it's ROUGH!!!

And BTW... Welcome to NOM!

Yesterday, I talked to a member of the Bishopric and asked to be released from my calling. I told him I would serve for another month to give them time to replace me. Today I had a conversation with my daughter. Thank you Give it Time for your experience and words of advice! I used many of your talking points when I spoke with her. She said that she wasn't surprised and I'm not entirely sure what her thoughts are. I'm hoping to keep the line of communication open. I think it went as well as I could expect it to. I told her that I'm still the same person and hope she finds that there won't be a bunch of changes. Basically, I just won't be attending church any longer. I told her that my path is not her path and I want her to find her path. I will support her in her choices.

I feel so much lighter! Thank you all of the support you have given me! I hope that I can offer that same support to others.