NOM

I don't know what these busy-body whistle blowers think they're about.

We do have our reasons for staying silent. We do have our reasons for sharing our stories when we're ready in a way that is right for us.

I've had my own experiences with people trying to out me. One of these people tried to hook her talons into my son.

My son posted a picture of himself at a pride parade. This person, who I believe believes she means well, asked what the significance of the picture was. Now, let me pause for a bit. It could have been idle curiosity. Purely, benignly wanting to know. Maybe, she felt some affinity for the pride celebrations. I don't know, but there are such things as private messages. I have had this person try to out me through Facebook. I have had this person try to "save me" on three other occasions. Anyway, she chose the publicness of Facebook to ask the question and my son answered truthfully and non-specifically. He is somewhere on the rainbow.

I saw that exchange and decided to claim my son. I knew that doing this would ping in my friends' news feeds. I've had recent trouble with my ex using the neighbors to spy on us. Something, I didn't let put me into hiding. I went public the most respectful way I could. I thought this might actually turn good for us. Then this trying to out my son. I could see the speculative wheels turning in my neighbors' heads and knew this was another time to not hide. Just when I thought things were getting good. Just when I thought things would calm down.

So, I grabbed hold of the story and outed myself as the proud mother of a son on the rainbow. In the end, the honesty and knowing where we stand and feeling less need to hide will be good, but I'm still mighty amazed at the audacity of this person. This person is a family member, so it's not like unfriending is a possibility. I live in Utah County and this type of outing people could really damage a person's situation in their neighborhood, really hurt their chances for a job. I really feel like going through her news feed and passive-aggressively asking her why she posted certain shockingly bigoted posts or sending her conference talks letting her know we are all God's children.

I'm sorry, but I think this behavior is just malicious and evil. I think that before they start asking those questions that are an intention to make you look bad, they should put some of their dirty laundry in the table first.

On the plus side, I've gotten support, but it's clear it's been rather polarizing: a handful of people from the ward, one sibling and his family, one cousin. Smatterings of people here and there. I did get complimented for being a fierce mother and that was nice.

But damn!

Why do people think they're making the world a better place by destroying people's lives?

Damn!

Evil. Just evil.

I can't say for sure that it's this, but could the woman in question just be tying one of her worst tendencies to what she sees as a good cause? She may just be that nosey gossipy kind of person that you see in so many communities but who thinks her gossiping can be socially acceptable if she ties it to her religion. Kind of like when a bully decides to bully for a seemingly good cause.

Good for you for sticking up for your son.

DPRoberts wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:07 pm I can't say for sure that it's this, but could the woman in question just be tying one of her worst tendencies to what she sees as a good cause? She may just be that nosey gossipy kind of person that you see in so many communities but who thinks her gossiping can be socially acceptable if she ties it to her religion. Kind of like when a bully decides to bully for a seemingly good cause.

Good for you for sticking up for your son.

I don't know what this is about, for her. She hasn't responded to my son's post or mine. I do think she believes she is, somehow, doing a good thing.

I still would like to publicly ask her if she's a member of the KKK.

I've seen so many examples of meddling and poor boundaries in Mormonism. Some of it IS culture-go visiting teaching and report back. See something on Facebook and tattle to your bishop. Good for you for pushing back. Every time we do I hope someone is watching and learning.

Anon70 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:01 pm I've seen so many examples of meddling and poor boundaries in Mormonism. Some of it IS culture-go visiting teaching and report back. See something on Facebook and tattle to your bishop. Good for you for pushing back. Every time we do I hope someone is watching and learning.

No doubt. The Church doesn't understand or recognize boundaries, and teaches its members to be busybodies who are up in other people's business all the time.

GIT,

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It can be so frustrating to deal with "the collective" sometimes.

I'm so glad you were there to support your son. Both of you have demonstrated courage. I admire you both for that. Sounds to me like you managed the situation with dignity. That dignity (along with your articulate writing, BTW) speaks volumes about you and demonstrates just how incorrect the Mormon stereotypes of apostates can be. Yours is one more example that I"m sure is creating a calm wake of cognitive dissonance that just might add to the shelf of some.

Thanks for sharing,
Zack

Zack Tacorin Dos wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:14 am GIT,

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It can be so frustrating to deal with "the collective" sometimes.

I'm so glad you were there to support your son. Both of you have demonstrated courage. I admire you both for that. Sounds to me like you managed the situation with dignity. That dignity (along with your articulate writing, BTW) speaks volumes about you and demonstrates just how incorrect the Mormon stereotypes of apostates can be. Yours is one more example that I"m sure is creating a calm wake of cognitive dissonance that just might add to the shelf of some.

Thanks for sharing,
Zack

Thank you, so much, Zack. This really means a lot to me. When my testimony first crumbled, I panicked. How would I be a good person? How would I keep myself from being an alcoholic, drug-addled prostitute who murders her clients and competition? Then I took a breath and reason settled in. If I need a religion to keep me from going off the rails, that doesn't say much about me, now does it? At that moment, I resolved to be an example of an unbeliever. Just as Paul admonished, but in reverse.

Zack, you're right. It does have the unintended consequence of leaving a wake of cognitive dissonance for believers. They don't appreciate the fact that a person can be a good person without the church dictating their choices.

It's amazing how, once out voluntarily, the connection Gay LDS kids feel with the Pride movement. Our son just loves Pride stuff. Had a rainbow yellow once that blew my mind.

GIT, I'm so sorry you are having to deal with people such as this. It is hard to cope with difficult people, even though Christ calls us to love selflessly and ceaselessly. So, are we just supposed to force a smile and fake a laugh, while inside we're cringing or crying or wanting to flee? How can we possibly be genuine with all these negative emotions broiling just beneath the surface?

You did the right thing, you handled it with care and set an example of our best in humanity. Anger is a normal human emotion when someone abuses you or abuses someone you care about. But what you do with your anger determines the person you are. Clearly you are someone I would want to have as an example in protecting my children.

Grace2Daisy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:10 am GIT, I'm so sorry you are having to deal with people such as this. It is hard to cope with difficult people, even though Christ calls us to love selflessly and ceaselessly. So, are we just supposed to force a smile and fake a laugh, while inside we're cringing or crying or wanting to flee? How can we possibly be genuine with all these negative emotions broiling just beneath the surface?

You did the right thing, you handled it with care and set an example of our best in humanity. Anger is a normal human emotion when someone abuses you or abuses someone you care about. But what you do with your anger determines the person you are. Clearly you are someone I would want to have as an example in protecting my children.

Thank you, G2D. I've been thinking about how a fruit is squeezed, the juice that comes out is an indicator of the fruit. At first, I was protective fierce mom, but then as the dust settled, I realized I was harboring anger. I asked for some ways to view this person more compassionately and a couple of family members have provided some insight. It's sketchy, but I'll go with it. She's family, after all.

This morning, I remembered my lovingkindness meditation and I'll be doing that with her in mind. I'll also be looking up some more thoughts on the Eastern philosophies views and methods of forgiveness. So, yeah! Practice in new philosophical view!

On a tangential note, I just got back from church. A lot of big reveals for my ward about me and my family, recently.

1. My ex admitting to having spies and his trying to pass off their behavior with the excuse that they are telling him these things about us to "help" us. I stepped up and, yup, I said I didn't appreciate that.
2. I told my bishop that the previous administration and the ward under his leadership had sent a pretty clear message to me and my sons that they are okay with abuse.
3. I broke my protective silence around my ex and told a very damning story to help the bishop understand better about abuse and why having my ex trying to infiltrate our lives will not be greeted with enthusiasm.
4. My son's coming out and my coming out as his ally.

This has all been within the last four weeks. The mood in the ward has definitely shifted. There are people who were supportive, then mad at me, but are back to supportive.

There were a whole lot of people, I mean most of the ward, was looking at me sheepishly from events 1 - 3.

There are two women who've been supportive of me, who now aren't.

There's a woman who, I'm pretty sure has a gay son who is happy to talk to me (for the first time in ten years), but afraid to look me in the eye.

There were people who extended support online, through pm and some in person. Fascinating.

I think "the outers" have very complex reasoning for doing what they do. I think Give it Time's story is particularly frustrating and nasty, that one just seems to be some gossipy person's lack of a general life that made her be an outer. I also agree very much with Anon 70 and Not Buying It, it is a culture of no boundaries that make people pry into affairs so far out of their concern. That one I don't get at all, I have enough on my plate without worrying about other people and what they're doing.

I too have been outed as a "doubter," by my HPGL. I've told the story a few times, so I won't rehash it. But knowing him a little, I think the motivation was not out of gossipy boundary breaking, but he's a true believer, and I think he feels some kind of misguided zealotry in "protecting the church." And dang it, he's going to make sure no doubter is going to thrive on his watch. It's stupid, it's annoying, and it's made me more of a pariah than I would be otherwise - which is fine with me, by the way - but while I don't really talk to him anymore, I can tell he feels righteous about it. To bad it's not just the doubters that aren't flourishing in our area, it's everybody. When the powers that be want to REALLY know why this is, I'll tell them.

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:39 am I too have been outed as a "doubter," by my HPGL. I've told the story a few times, so I won't rehash it.

Can you direct me to this? I searched through your posts a little and didn't find it. Would like
to read it.

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:39 am I think "the outers" have very complex reasoning for doing what they do. I think Give it Time's story is particularly frustrating and nasty, that one just seems to be some gossipy person's lack of a general life that made her be an outer. I also agree very much with Anon 70 and Not Buying It, it is a culture of no boundaries that make people pry into affairs so far out of their concern. That one I don't get at all, I have enough on my plate without worrying about other people and what they're doing.

I too have been outed as a "doubter," by my HPGL. I've told the story a few times, so I won't rehash it. But knowing him a little, I think the motivation was not out of gossipy boundary breaking, but he's a true believer, and I think he feels some kind of misguided zealotry in "protecting the church." And dang it, he's going to make sure no doubter is going to thrive on his watch. It's stupid, it's annoying, and it's made me more of a pariah than I would be otherwise - which is fine with me, by the way - but while I don't really talk to him anymore, I can tell he feels righteous about it. To bad it's not just the doubters that aren't flourishing in our area, it's everybody. When the powers that be want to REALLY know why this is, I'll tell them.

M, that's just it. I'm too danged busy to break into their houses and go rummaging through their laundry hamper. Kind of want to hand them a list of errands and go do them for me if they've got so much time on their hands.

I'm sorry about your HPGL, it just makes church unpleasant to attend.

I wasn't outed for being on the rainbow, but I endured a terrible outing (by my parents to my extended family) about my disaffection -- in an email about 3 years ago. My parents really did see this as an "Intervention" that would save my soul. Here's the shocker: It didn't. It just harmed many family relationships, that may never recover. My story went down with NOM 1.0.

GIT-- Are you a member of Mama Dragons? I just joined this year (I have a son somewhere on the rainbow, too). This group was a lifesaver for me when my son was involuntarily hospitalized for suicidal ideation in April. I've met great Mamas there.

Enough wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:33 pm I wasn't outed for being on the rainbow, but I endured a terrible outing (by my parents to my extended family) about my disaffection -- in an email about 3 years ago. My parents really did see this as an "Intervention" that would save my soul. Here's the shocker: It didn't. It just harmed many family relationships, that may never recover. My story went down with NOM 1.0.

GIT-- Are you a member of Mama Dragons? I just joined this year (I have a son somewhere on the rainbow, too). This group was a lifesaver for me when my son was involuntarily hospitalized for suicidal ideation in April. I've met great Mamas there.

Thank you. I forgot the name of the group.

I remember your story from NOM 1.0. Your experience is something I don't think well meaning members realize. "Interventions" make things worse. FWIW, they really do need to follow the lead of the parent in The Prodigal Son. I don't like referring to us as "prodigals" and I hate the phrase "came to himself", but the father let his son go, with his blessing and let him return without shaming.

Anon70 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:32 pm

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:39 am I too have been outed as a "doubter," by my HPGL. I've told the story a few times, so I won't rehash it.

Can you direct me to this? I searched through your posts a little and didn't find it. Would like
to read it.

It meanders a bit, but here's the general gist.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=853&p=8072#p8072