NOM

One of my girls ended up in the county jail for the night. I am not to sure what happened as I've heard conflicting stories but the good news is by this morning all charges were dropped and she is being released within a few hours. Over the course of the morning we have been talking a lot trying to work out things and to use up the $50 worth of prepaid minutes I plopped down so I could receive her calls. She is in a cell with about 9-10 other women. Maybe a holding tank for the night ... I don't know! I've never been in jail. She went on to tell me she felt sorry for this one woman that was brought in just after her. It seems she came home from church and got into a fight with someone, at one point during the fight the woman was drenched in water soaking her Sunday dress, police were called and she was arrested. They brought her in dripping wet and had her change out of the dress. And now she sits along side all the nights arrests and my daughter with nothing on but her garments. Her strange attire has been definitely noticed not in words but stares from the inmates. When I heard this I felt quite sad for her and the situation she is in. I know how I would feel if I had to sit all night in a jail in my underwear.... but garments! Yep, no hiding under layers of clothes, long sleeves and below the knee skirts anymore. No more pretending when ones secret yet sacred underwear is on display for all to see. I'm not mocking this woman or her humiliating situation, I really do feel deep sadness for her and wish I could grab a blanket and wrap her up. Well there is nothing left to ones imagination for this young women in the cell and I hope she will be OK.

Garments are just plain weird, we all know that but to a TBM they are sacred and come with great meaning and I respect her right to wear her sacred underwear even though I no longer agree. I thought of all the times I covered up, and feared someone would see my garments. I guess that comes from living in a area where there were few Mormons. Though I went to great lengths to hide the distinctable line on my arm or at the knee it was always there and I wondered did people notice? Luckily I was never called out and questioned by non Mormons about my garments but I had a friend who did. She passed out at work and was taken to the infirmary. When she came to the nursing staff had removed her dress and she was lying on an examining table in her garments. One of them said while pointing to her garments, "what are those?" All she could think to say was that they were just her "things". After that the nursing staff referred to it as "her things". After her experience I always wondered what I would say if asked and I think her response, "they're my things" would be all I needed to say.

That sounds awful.

My inactive daughter said that thanks to a recent episode of Orange is the New Black all her friends will now know I wear funky underwear.

I certainly have sympathy for your daughter, SeeNoEvil. It's no fun to spend the night in jail and admittedly, my only experience with jail comes from police procedural dramas on television and movies. But I certainly have a ton of additional sympathy for someone who spent the night in nothing but their garments in an already terrible situation in jail.

"Sacred" and "Secret" already have a forced alliance in the LDS faith. Hugh Nibley wrote about this tension a couple of times. I cannot recall which of his books or writings precisely, but his description left me skeptical. Dr. Nibley talked about ancient mystery cults that had the source of their worship tucked away with the most sacred/secret place in their temple. The initiate had to ritually purity themselves before finally entering into the sacred chamber to behold the unveiling of their most sacred/secret relics or idol.

Nibley was discussing this as part of the explanation of the nature of the LDS temple which he obviously loved. The secret aspect of the sacred certainly contributed to individual faith in their beliefs and in that faith community. But even as I read this as a believer, my engineering training kicked in and I was left with a less favorable reaction. At the end of this ritual, all they got to see was essentially a carved rock. All this ritual did was put the initate in a state of mind to revere this sacred/secret item. But it's not like they developed Jedi Force powers. As a non-believer, it's just a rock and all that developed was additional reverence.

LDS temple garments have the same inherent problem. It's just underpants. Ancient sacred relics were kept hidden and Mormons have systematically hidden their garments over time. Changes to the design were made which has included removing a collar, tied laces up the front, being one piece, and being wrist and ankle length. Most telling of all was that so much of the temple ritual was in place supporting plural marriage. The garment is the modern incarnation of 19th century polygamy embarrassment.

SeeNoEvil-- This whole scenario is awful, for everyone involved. I'm so sorry-- to you: I can only imagine how difficult it is to go through this as a parent (not to mention how hard it is for your daughter).

As for the other woman, I think it's horrible to disrespect her in this way-- to leave her in only her garments is terrible & humiliating, really. Don't they have any jail-issue clothing?

I just saw the Orange is the New Black episode last night. Although I don't wear garments any more, I felt somewhat violated just watching this SCRIPTED episode. It's not cute, or, funny, or interesting...or OK. It's just sad when people cannot respect deeply-held beliefs/values, and offer the most basic level of sensitivity and compassion.

redjay: Sounds like you are off the hook with your daughters friends! I never thought garments as funky but more like weird and uncomfortable. I haven't seen the Orange is the New Black series but as Enough mentioned "It's not cute, or, funny, or interesting...or OK. It's just sad when people cannot respect deeply-held beliefs/values, and offer the most basic level of sensitivity and compassion." I guess showing garments like that takes the mystery out if but it still makes me uncomfortable when I think of it and I shed mine years ago. wasn't there a scene in Quantico where they flashed a picture of one of the candidates standing in his one piece? I think this is really tacky and so unnecessary.

Cosair: Thanks for the interesting comments regarding Nibley's book. I find it interesting that he would use the ancient mystery cult practice as an example and compare it to the secret sacred aspect of the Mormon temple. The church adamantly denies any cult type behavior exists and to have Nibley even mention it would definitely toss another brick on my bulging shelf had it already not been shattered.

Enough: Thanks for your words of support. DD is out, headed home to coupe from this mess. I am still shaking but we will get through this. I am just grateful she isn't hurt, there are no charges, no court to contend with, only the other aftermath stuff to deal with. I don't know why they wouldn't give the other woman in the holding tank anything to cover up with or at least change into the jail jumpsuits and my daughter didn't know why either. The woman was release just before my daughter was so I hope she too can put this behind her.

How do you explain garments to people? Have any of you ever been asked by non members or been in an embarrassing situation where you found yourself scrambling to explain them?

SNE, first off I'm sorry you had to deal with a daughter in jail. My condolences for that. Glad to hear no charges or otherwise difficult repercussions. I sympathize for the other lady only as a human being but not as a garment wearing mormon.

Even Joseph Smith was smart enough to take his garments off before going to jail!

With that said, I don't have any sympathy for garments or the church that dehumanizes it's members by requiring them to be worn to be considered worthy. It's their requirement and each member covenants to give all he/she has to the church and the building of gods kingdom here on earth. That includes one's dignity while sitting in jail in your polygamy panties!! The church clearly doesn't care if you're embarrassed in your fundy undies!

On a personal note, a few years ago my wife had to go to the emergency room. When she was called back for the inbound check up, the nurse asked her to take her pants off. No sooner had my wife drops her jeans exposing her garments and the nurse is asking "what ward are you in?" Had we not lived in Mormonville the nurse would have asked what the hell are you wearing?

Let's face it, they're embarrassing and members know it.

SeeNoEvil wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:29 pm How do you explain garments to people? Have any of you ever been asked by non members or been in an embarrassing situation where you found yourself scrambling to explain them?

"Religious Vestments" Similar to a priest's robes, or a Jewish prayer shawl or skull cap.

That's the explanation I've given. I think I learned it during my 2 years of servitude...

What a story. I'm sorry for your daughter and hope all is well now.
I am so glad the garment lady got to keep her garments on in jail rather than wearing county panties. They surely protected her from any incident like dropping the soap while using the washroom.

I would hope that if she had been going commando they would have given her something. Then again, maybe sitting ther naked might be preferable to wearing only garments.

Maybe all those budget cuts prevented the jailors from offering one of those orange jumpsuits to cover her garments.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:31 pm

SeeNoEvil wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:29 pm How do you explain garments to people? Have any of you ever been asked by non members or been in an embarrassing situation where you found yourself scrambling to explain them?

"Religious Vestments" Similar to a priest's robes, or a Jewish prayer shawl or skull cap. That's the explanation I've given. I think I learned it during my 2 years of servitude...

My TBM daughter uses this one. I never made that connection to garments and a priest robe but did try to make myself feel different in a holy or special way when I wore them. I had to work at it. When we are told over and over our entire life in the church that this is a sacred garment then it must be so! But it was never "so" for me. I never felt sacred or protected in them.

2bizE wrote: What a story. I'm sorry for your daughter and hope all is well now. I am so glad the garment lady got to keep her garments on in jail rather than wearing county panties. They surely protected her from any incident like dropping the soap while using the washroom.

Emower wrote: I would hope that if she had been going commando they would have given her something. Then again, maybe sitting ther naked might be preferable to wearing only garments.

All is well today and DD is just putting it all behind her. SeeNoEvil is still recovering! I learned more about the lady in the garments. She was not released but moved to another cell and yes.... was given a jail outfit to wear. She's just dang lucky all she got was stares. Maybe the super secret/sacred underwear protected her afterall.

Moksha wrote: Maybe all those budget cuts prevented the jailors from offering one of those orange jumpsuits to cover her garments.

Probably so. It was in a large metropolitan city and the jail was crowded.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:06 pmWith that said, I don't have any sympathy for garments or the church that dehumanizes it's members by requiring them to be worn to be considered worthy. It's their requirement and each member covenants to give all he/she has to the church and the building of gods kingdom here on earth. That includes one's dignity while sitting in jail in your polygamy panties!! The church clearly doesn't care if you're embarrassed in your fundy undies!

This! Weren't we all taught they are sacred and secret? I don't know about you I sat in horror the day the church published their spin video about their super secret sacred undies and robes in the Salt Lake Tribune http://www.sltrib.com/home/1726238-155/ ... rmon-video. There no longer is anything secret about the garment. Where the Catholic or Buddhist robes or the Jewish kipa are well accepted the Mormon garment will always be associated with the weird beliefs of a strange religion.