Fawn Brodies book

[Rob4Hope]

OK...I finally am almost done with this book. WOW...

Biggest reaction I have is during the pre-Carthage chapters, where the Expositor was written. Joseph was so clever with his public discourse. He always, over and over, would slant the issue, and while talking to the people smear the line to inflect and infuse his personal problems with the "rights" of the people. He always made the attacks he brought on himself appear to be attacks on the LDS saints.

It makes sense that the lies with which he hid his activities kept the general populace ignorant of what was going on with spiritual wifery, and the line between himself and God, as well as his own life and the church in general was intentionally smeared.

The man had immense self assurance, born on narcissistic psychosis. Now that I can see that more in him, I recognize it more and more in leaders that influenced me over the years. Bruce McConkie is an example: the man talked with absolute authority and assurance, and he never spoke in his own voice--it was always him "Declaring the Word of the Lord."

I am reminded of one of the signs of a cult: the line between man and God is diminished. Those who are cult leaders speak as though they were God, and to challenge their word is to challenge God.

How destructive and DANGEROUS!

People who exude that kind of confidence, whether it is naturally justified or just delusionally fueled, must ALWAYS be watched carefully; their words must be weigted with sound and dispassionate minds against the known facts. Only then can possible lies be discovered.

Joseph lied outright, but held others in check by saying that if he fell, it would mean the end of the Church. And with others, if he fell, it would mean their eternal damnation.

I don't believe God builds systems based on lies. If He does, He isn't a God I can follow. That means there are problems with the church, right from the beginning...and that becomes more clear all the time.

I don't think Brodie is lying in this book; it certainly cost her enough to write it--both spiritually and socially.

[Charlotte]

I don't believe God builds systems based on lies. If He does, He isn't a God I can follow. That means there are problems with the church, right from the beginning...and that becomes more clear all the time.

I'm totally done with the hero worship, and Praise to the Man is off my playlist. (That the church is holding for dear life to JS's most degrading teaching - polygamy - amazes me. Why???)

But I wish we could talk like adults about what any church really is. We build churches, not God. And every single one has an imperfect foundation that includes some lies. But when you find the fault/lie, regardless of pain or expense, you need to fix it. I believe in a God who wants us to build and remodel, build and remodel.

[deacon blues]

I think McConkie is an interesting example. I agree with you about his demeanor. He always seemed to be subtly emphasizing the distance between his listeners and himself, by reminding them of his "authority" to speak for God, and their "covenants" to heed everything he said as if it came from God.

[moksha]

Biggest reaction I have is during the pre-Carthage chapters, where the Expositor was written.

Is that the one where he lambasted the "fake news" and tweeted out that no one has ever been treated as badly as himself?

[Rob4Hope]

William Hall asserted that he had heard Young say publicly to Jacobs: “The woman you claim for a wife does not belong to you. She is the spiritual wife of brother Joseph, sealed to him. I am his proxy, and she, in this behalf, with her children, are my property. You can go where you please, and get another, but be sure to get one of your own kindred spirits.”

Brodie, Fawn M.. No Man Knows My History (Illustrated): The Life of Joseph Smith (Kindle Locations 10416-10419). Barvas Books. Kindle Edition.

I am glad I am out. Had I lived back in Brigham's days, I would have had to leave and get far away....because this statement about how Jacobs was treated, and his wife held in ransom as "property" is outrageous!

Both Brigham Young and Joseph Smith were tyrants and evil men. They acted with impunity toward man and Country, claiming God as the source of their license.

What a bunch of creeps. If someone had taken my wife and treated me like this, I would have gone after them, and not with a soft pillow.