NOM

It seems that as I look back on my life as a believing member of the church, I begin to see the manipulation tactics of the church. And by the way, these tactics are not exclusive to Mormonism. Whether these tactics are used intentionally or just happen as the evolution of the church progressed, I am not sure but the results are the same.

Here is what I experienced with my testimony of the truthfulness of the church.

I was baptized when I was eight years old. Nope, I did not have a testimony, did not even know what it was, never used the term. It was what was expected, to be baptized.

Through the next 11 years I never once expressed a testimony in any form to anyone. I read the BOM, prayed constantly, obeyed the commandments as best a young person can do, read the Bible. (I loved the Sermon on the Mount in particular because, as an introvert, the promise of the meek inheriting the earth and such was appealing to me as I felt God recognized me as being OK even though I was not a popular, cool kid, ha ha)

But here is one event of manipulation that happened to me. I was a sophomore in high school, released time seminary. Much to my surprise, the seminary teacher, Bother So and So, decided to have a testimony meeting in class that day! My reaction was to an immediate shut down. I now felt the pressure to say those dreaded words that I know the church is true amongst a classroom full of my peers. I had a real problem with saying something that was not honest. I sure as h@#% did not KNOW the church was true. No angelic visitations, no burning bosom, even though, lord knows, I tried. I was the only one that did not bear a testimony that day. I estimate that we all sat there, in silence, waiting for me to bear my testimony for 10 minutes until, thankfully, the class ended. Time to go back to school. It was as though I could feel everyone looking and waiting for me to stand up and speak. It was humiliating and made me angry. This was a manipulation tactic, forcing young people to say things they do not want to say to fit into mormon society.

So I never once, not once, proclaimed the truthfulness of the church publicly or privately until my mission fairwell. I even went through the temple for the first time without a truthfulness proclamation. So, at 19 years old, I set aside my honesty and publicly told my ward members that I knew the church was true, when I did not know at all. And for the next 2 years I kept reciting this mantra over and over again, until, by d@#%, I knew the church was true. This is a clever and effective manipulation tactic.

I came home from my mission fully committed to the church. I toed the line and tried my best to fit in with mormon society. I did this for 20 years until it all came apart. I was burned out, not happy with life. I quit all of my callings and then learned the truth about the church I once so fully believed.

So, I am curious, what are the experiences with testimonies that all of you have had and where do you stand today?

I like attention, so bearing my testimony as a kid was one way to get praise and attention from my parents and others. I enjoyed it. And I more or less bought into the ways TBMs get themselves to feel comfortable saying I know.

• Lot's of people I respect say they know, they can't all be wrong can they?
• It feels good to express my firm belief as a knowledge, and that good feeling is a confirmation.
• A testimony is found in the bearing of it (isn't this the biggest steaming pile of crap? Epistemologically disgusting.)

And as you pointed out, once you push through for a while you really feel like you "know".

Today I feel like I was manipulated by other people who had been manipulated and were really trying to do for me what they thought best.

Testimonies are most definitely a manipulation tool and all part of the indoctrination. It's not only the repetition of saying something over and over and over again until you start to believe it yourself that is damaging it also creates feelings of self doubt in those listening to it. I used to rarely bare my testimony other than when I was at girls camp and on that last day we all had to do it. Once I remembered we hiked up to a ridge and sat on rocks where we had this incredible view of the forest and valley below. We all had to bare out testimonies. Then I went for years never doing it. Once the bishop called me up from the audience as the random person selected to bare their testimony. My TBM husband said I looked mad. Well, I was dang mad and should have just walked out the door then but didn't think I was "allowed" to... after all a spokesman from God was asking me to do something. ugh.

It was agonizing listening to all those testimonies where people talked about their perfect families and perfect lives and I'd look at my not so perfect world and feel like I must be doing something wrong. So I tried to bear my testimony and began the same cycle of saying over and over I believed and I have a wonderful family and husband and owed it all to the church. Eventually I believed but believing eventually became to exhausting because in the end I realized I didn't believe and the bulging shelf collapsed.

This sounds uncanny, almost autobiographical. I felt shy, loved that the meek might inherit the earth, was confronted with the "everybody bear their testimony" submission rite in church and Ricks College, and so on. I would say "I believe in the principals of the gospel" because I knew I didn't know. Thanks for sharing this.

In reality, I always wanted to ask people who said "I know" "how do you know?"

deacon blues wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2017 3:11 pm In reality, I always wanted to ask people who said "I know" "how do you know?"

"I know" is so common now, it has lost all meaning, I think everybody knows, that "I know" , doesn't really mean you know, what you think everybody expects you to know, but you don't really know, nor does anybody else know, but we still all just pretend to know. The only way you really know if somebody knows that they think they know, is if they follow it with "beyond a shadow of a doubt" then i'm pretty sure they still don't know.

you know what I mean?

You all had radically different first "I know"s from mine.
I never bore my testimony for a long time because I didn't have one. Since I determined that I did have one, I have only done so a handful of times. The reason I'm still mostly believing is that at my highest "I know"iness, I only knew that I could recognize the HG when it was very strong, that God loved me and surely loved everyone else just as much, and that eternal life was something to look forward to. The complete absence of knowing anything LDS-specific has kept me very optimistic about the whole belief scene.
Back to testimony bearing. I understood the "bear one to find one" to mean bear a incomplete testimony to process your ideas into a full-fledged testimony. Though obviously self-indoctrination is also possible.

Linked wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2017 10:33 am

• Lot's of people I respect say they know, they can't all be wrong can they?
• It feels good to express my firm belief as a knowledge, and that good feeling is a confirmation.

I know was the vocabulary used for firm belief, so I used it as soon as I had firm belief. Now I get to back a notch down to firm belief.