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Hyrum Smith
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:08 am
by Hagoth
You don't hear many details about the life of Hyrum Smith. He was one of the eight witnesses, he replaced his father as patriarch, and he died at Carthage. That is pretty much the narrative.
Maybe you folks could help me fill in a few blanks. There was a lot more to Hyrum than meets the correlated eye. For one thing, he attended Dartmouth as a teenager. I believe it was a program specifically for poor kids, but he must have had some real aptitude considering his humble origins. John Hamer tells us that Hyrum was a significant component of Joseph's education, and that while Joseph was incapacitated with his leg malady Hyrum instructed him in everything he was learning at Dartmouth. Hyrum was around during the creation of the Book of Mormon but as far as I know we don't know much about how he felt about things or how/if he might have been involved. Is it worth considering something like a Smith/Smith/Cowdery authorship?
Re: Hyrum Smith
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:38 am
by Spicy McHaggis
I read somewhere (sorry, I can't remember the source) that Hyrum wrote most of D&C 132. That Joseph had come up with a much shorter version and that Hyrum re-wrote it into a much longer version. I don't remember what parts Hyrum was supposed to have added.
We know that Joseph's kids stayed in Illinois and formed the reorganized church. Was it Hyrum's kids who went west with Brigham? I know some of the subsequent prophets were Joseph's nephews, where they Hyrum's kids?
Re: Hyrum Smith
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:43 am
by Palerider
I know that in his defense of Joseph (which of course was unwavering) he stated that even if Joseph only got one prophecy correct out of ten he was still a prophet. This apparently occurred when some were being critical of Joseph's failed prophecies.
Re: Hyrum Smith
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:54 am
by deacon blues
Palerider wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2017 10:43 am
I know that in his defense of Joseph (which of course was unwavering) he stated that even if Joseph only got one prophecy correct out of ten he was still a prophet. This apparently occurred when some were being critical of Joseph's failed prophecies.
That's a fascinating quote. Is there a reference for that?
Re: Hyrum Smith
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:04 pm
by Palerider
deacon blues wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2017 10:54 am
Palerider wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2017 10:43 am
I know that in his defense of Joseph (which of course was unwavering) he stated that even if Joseph only got one prophecy correct out of ten he was still a prophet. This apparently occurred when some were being critical of Joseph's failed prophecies.
That's a fascinating quote. Is there a reference for that?
Man you guys are making me work too hard here......some of this stuff I read 10 years ago....
Anyway I found this quote and will see if I can find a bit more direct link:
"Hyrum Smith, who was also a "prophet," on Nov 1, 1831, commented about prophecy and said that "if you hit once in 10 times, that is alright." [quoted by Abraham O. Smoot in 1868 at the Provo School of the Prophets]"
Re: Hyrum Smith
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:54 pm
by Mad Jax
So prophecy = statistically likely outcome, is the position of Hyrum Smith on the subject...
Re: Hyrum Smith
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:39 pm
by wtfluff
Didn't Joseph have a hallucination, um... I mean revelation, where he saw Hyrum sitting on the right-hand of god in the celestial kingdom or something?
Oh, wait, that was Alvin.
Sorry, got Joseph's hallucinations, um... I mean brothers, mixed up...
Re: Hyrum Smith
Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:39 am
by deacon blues
Palerider wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2017 5:04 pm
deacon blues wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2017 10:54 am
Palerider wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2017 10:43 am
I know that in his defense of Joseph (which of course was unwavering) he stated that even if Joseph only got one prophecy correct out of ten he was still a prophet. This apparently occurred when some were being critical of Joseph's failed prophecies.
That's a fascinating quote. Is there a reference for that?
Man you guys are making me work too hard here......some of this stuff I read 10 years ago....
Anyway I found this quote and will see if I can find a bit more direct link:
"Hyrum Smith, who was also a "prophet," on Nov 1, 1831, commented about prophecy and said that "if you hit once in 10 times, that is alright." [quoted by Abraham O. Smoot in 1868 at the Provo School of the Prophets]"
Thanks, PR. Man, you have a encyclopedic mind. I had never heard that quote before.
I think the idea of Hyrum passing on parts of his formal education to Joseph is very important. Those two had an amazing bond.
Re: Hyrum Smith
Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:44 am
by deacon blues
deacon blues wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2017 6:39 am
Palerider wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2017 5:04 pm
deacon blues wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2017 10:54 am
That's a fascinating quote. Is there a reference for that?
Man you guys are making me work too hard here......some of this stuff I read 10 years ago....
Anyway I found this quote and will see if I can find a bit more direct link:
"Hyrum Smith, who was also a "prophet," on Nov 1, 1831, commented about prophecy and said that "if you hit once in 10 times, that is alright." [quoted by Abraham O. Smoot in 1868 at the Provo School of the Prophets]"
Thanks, PR. Man, you have a encyclopedic mind. I had never heard that quote before.
I think the idea of Hyrum passing on parts of his formal education to Joseph is very important. Those two had an amazing bond. If the internet had existed in Joseph Smith's day, imagine the effect on LDS theology.
I would say that the "one in ten prophecy" percentage was pretty close. Although in D&C 87 he was hitting a little higher, around 50%.
Re: Hyrum Smith
Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:48 am
by Hagoth
I prophesy that Jesus will come:
Within a day
Within a week
Within a month
Within a year
Within a decade
Within a century
Within a millennium...
...and I still have three guesses left to remain within the 10% accuracy requirements!
Re: Hyrum Smith
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:54 am
by Not Buying It
The whole Smith family was known as a bunch of loonies and shysters. In Palmyra they never carried the aura of respectability that the Church paints them with today. Hyrum was unfailingly loyal to Joseph, that is true, but the whole family was benefitting off the con, with Joseph Smith Sr. charging for patriarchal blessings, Lucy Mack charging to see the mummies in Kirtland, and the brothers all having jobs as Church leaders. Their dedication to Joseph can be seen through a cynical eye as benefitting all of them financially.
But the line between spirituality and profiteering was always very thin for the Smith family, I don't expect Hyrum was any different than the rest of them in that respect. I have never heard any suggestion he was involved in the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, so the simplest explanation is that he probably wasn't since there is no evidence of any kind for it. But he certainly benefitted from the aftermath.