NOM

I was a member/poster on the previous board since late 2008. I lurked a lot (posted occasionally) and was sad when the board went away. So happy to see that it has been restored and some of the old posters are back!

Heading off to a meeting now, but I'll share more of how my story has evolved later.

It was indeed a joyous day when there was a restoration of all things NOM.

So update...

I started my faith transition back in late 2008. Once I started my own research, I knew within a week that I no longer believed. But I did my due diligence in my research and took the next 6 months to study everything very carefully. Once that was done I knew my belief system had done a complete paradigm shift and I no longer believed in any form of organized religion.

Unfortunately, during this time I shared too much, too fast, with my wife. My research only strengthened her belief system! So the paths we trod for a few years were pretty rough, and not very close. But one saving grace for our marriage was that while becoming a non-believer in a spiritual sense, my life-style choices didn't change in a worldly sense. Basically, I still practice the WoW. Not because I feel I have too, but because it's what I enjoy for myself. So in sense, I didn't go through a dramatic change that put undue pressure on my wife and our marriage - other than I no longer believed!

From 2009 to 2014 I refused to go to Church. During this time frame I was pretty angry with the Church. I felt like my whole life and belief system was based upon lies. I wanted to have my records withdrawn from the Church, but my wife asked me not to do that, and I respected her wishes.

Around 2014, my stance on the Church and its continued involvement in my life (via my wife and son) softened. I decided that while I no longer believed, it was ok for my DW and DS to believe. Eventually I came around to the fact that the Church could even have a positive affect on their lives.

So I started looking at the church in a new light. I still don't believe that the Church is the one and only path to the CK. I still don't believe in the CK. I still don't believe in God. But I do believe in people! And I do know that many of the people that attend our Ward are GOOD people - including my DW and DS! So I've started attending SM again - for my family! And it's been good! It makes my wife very happy, and everyone knows that a happy wife makes for a happy life!!!

Interestingly enough, our Ward just got a new Bishopric recently. And as it turns out, the new Bishop also had a "Crisis in Faith" at one time. He went through much the same process as most of us did while researching the Church. Only he ultimately decided he still believed. ... This past week he has asked to visit with me - I'm assuming since we have a somewhat shared experience. Three years ago I would have refused the visit. But for some reason I'm looking forward to this one. I'm not worried about him reconverting me to the faith, but I'm very interested in hearing how his research led him back to the believing path when for so many the research tends to lead people out the door.

Anyway... There is a lot more to my story, but that was enough... for now!

Welcome back, Guy. So glad to hear that you have been able to stabilize your faith crisis/transition with your family well and intact.

Welcome back. Return and report on the visit with the BP.

My family (wife and 5 daughters, and both extended families) are in too deep to respect me if I leave now. All my daughters want to go to BYU. I have go e from TBM to agnostic and my wife has shifted a little bit but doesn't want to study due to community, family, and the girls. It ain't broke so no need to fix it.

I have resolved to the middle way but hoping for a change.

Guy wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2017 12:10 pm I was a member/poster on the previous board since late 2008. I lurked a lot (posted occasionally) and was sad when the board went away. So happy to see that it has been restored and some of the old posters are back!

Heading off to a meeting now, but I'll share more of how my story has evolved later.

We are glad you found us again.

Thanks for the warm welcomes.

I'm excited to reconnect with those that I knew from before, and to connect with those that I have yet to meet.
And I'm always excited to hear the stories and experiences from you all!

Guy wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2017 4:24 pm I'm not worried about him reconverting me to the faith, but I'm very interested in hearing how his research led him back to the believing path when for so many the research tends to lead people out the door.

I would be very interested in that as well. Please do post the update.

Personally, I'm always very suspect of people that supposedly know the issues yet still believe. Just something about how a thing that is demonstrably false can still somehow be true. Hopefully he'll have something more interesting to say than "it's true because God told me so".

BTW, welcome back!

Vlad the Emailer wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2017 9:37 am

Guy wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2017 4:24 pm I'm not worried about him reconverting me to the faith, but I'm very interested in hearing how his research led him back to the believing path when for so many the research tends to lead people out the door.

I would be very interested in that as well. Please do post the update.

Personally, I'm always very suspect of people that supposedly know the issues yet still believe. Just something about how something that can is demonstrably false can still somehow be true. Hopefully he'll have something more interesting to say than "it's true because God told me so".

BTW, welcome back!

Yeah, I'm interested in the "return to faith" story also.

I'll also be shocked if it's anything more than: "I've had spiritual experiences that I can't deny." Or in other words: "I got the feelz, and they came from a ghost!"

Welcome back, Guy! I'm also looking forward to a return and report on your bishop.

Update...

My son got called as Deacon President, so I went with him to meet with the Bishop over the weekend. Just from hearing his conversation with my son, the Bishop is definitely a True Believer! So our meeting discussing his "Faith Crisis" and return to being a believer is going to be very interesting. Our meeting is tomorrow! I'm really looking forward to it!

Guy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:47 pm Update...

My son got called as Deacon President, so I went with him to meet with the Bishop over the weekend. Just from hearing his conversation with my son, the Bishop is definitely a True Believer! So our meeting discussing his "Faith Crisis" and return to being a believer is going to be very interesting. Our meeting is tomorrow! I'm really looking forward to it!

These kinds of conversations are sometimes entertaining and enlightening. It's not often that you get a leader truly addressing issues directly. A lot of the time it just devolves into restating a faithful testimony of the church along with assuming that God will sort out any remaining issues eventually. Focus your arguments more narrowly. Don't try to cover the entire contents of the CES Letter or MormonThink. You are better off establishing a couple of basic, material claims like "what we can expect from a prophet in regards to plural marriage" or "how an LDS testimony is true and how non-members can have a testimony of their faith also." Keep it friendly and give them a rhetorically weak position for retreat. Allow them to stumble into an understanding that the claims of the LDS church are not truly compelling.

Let us know if anything interesting comes up.

Guy wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2017 12:10 pm I was a member/poster on the previous board since late 2008. I lurked a lot (posted occasionally) and was sad when the board went away. So happy to see that it has been restored and some of the old posters are back!

Heading off to a meeting now, but I'll share more of how my story has evolved later.

So happy to see you here! Welcome back

Welcome back! I remember you from the old NOM. Always great to hear a familiar voice!

Guy wrote: So I started looking at the church in a new light. I still don't believe that the Church is the one and only path to the CK. I still don't believe in the CK. I still don't believe in God. But I do believe in people! And I do know that many of the people that attend our Ward are GOOD people - including my DW and DS! So I've started attending SM again - for my family! And it's been good! It makes my wife very happy, and everyone knows that a happy wife makes for a happy life!!!

I too see the church in a different light. Once the anger subsided I realized the church is a building where good people come together. Hindsight tells me maybe I could have found a middle way to make it work and still maintain my friends and family ties but I will never know now I have resigned. I am happy to hear you are finding your way. The meeting with your bishop sounds promising. Please return and report! again.... welcome back!

Update: Meeting with Bishop...

Finally had the meeting with the Bishop. It was very interesting. We talked for over an hour and a half, sharing our experiences related to each of our own "Faith Crisis". Our stories and experiences are very similar, and cover pretty much the same time frame.

He researched every aspect of the Church and its history in great detail, both from the Anti and from the Apologists perspective. Finally, after years of research, he was ready to have his name removed from the Church records. On the day he was scheduled to meet with his Bishop to request to have his name removed, he had a moment of clarity (not a spiritual revelation). His moment of clarity was that he had one of two choices; 1) leave the church or 2) return and trust in the faith. He choose 2 and stayed. This didn't change any of the issues he had with the Church and its history, those still existed. But he made the conscious decision to stay and look for the good/positive in the Church.

Even though we shared same experiences, our paths took vastly different directions. I no longer believe, where he once again believes. But his belief is in the basic tenants of the Faith, not necessarily some of the historical issues. He believes the Priesthood Ban was a mistake and was never something that came from God. He also struggles with the Polygamy issue where Joseph Smith was involved. And some of the other things.

While I would categorize him as a true believer (minus some of the historical issues), he definitely is not a hard core one. He understands that issues still exist, and he's ok with it. Some of the issues he has to overlook, and at times he still struggles with them. But believing for him is a conscious decision, rather than one of just trusting what he has been told or raised to believe.

Similar to myself, he loves the Church because of the goodness in the People; where as I tolerate the Church because of the goodness in the People.

Like I said, it was a very interesting conversation. It still surprises me that he could experience such a long and extensive Faith Crisis and return to being a believer, but I respect it. In addition I think he can really be a good Bishop for the people in the Ward because of his experiences. He has a different perspective then those that never had a Faith Crisis and with that he can better relate to the members that are struggling (for whatever reason).

In the end, the one nice thing about the conversation was that he respects and understands my position. He made no attempt to reconvert me. And even though I no longer believe in the religion or its tenants, he appreciated the fact that I could once again attend because I see the goodness in the people, if not in the Church itself.

welcome back, yes it is great to have the NOM board back again. In my first NoM life I was jack now I am Rebel. NOM is a big part of my life !!!!!!!!!
I enjoy everyone on the board . God Bless.

Guy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:07 pm But he made the conscious decision to stay and look for the good/positive in the Church.

Curious. So does he believe that because he "looks for the good/positive" in the church, that the bad/negative parts of the church don't exist?

wtfluff wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:26 am

Guy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:07 pm But he made the conscious decision to stay and look for the good/positive in the Church.

Curious. So does he believe that because he "looks for the good/positive" in the church, that the bad/negative parts of the church don't exist?

No. He understands there are still problems. And even now, as a believer and as a bishop, at times he struggles with those things.

The one point that I got from him is that he still believes in God, and still believes we all will one day be with God in the eternities. And because of that, for him the Church is the best place for him to practice that belief, even though the Church has its imperfections. Actually, I should correct that... even though the Leadership (past or present - but mostly past) has had their imperfections.

SeeNoEvil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:11 am Welcome back! I remember you from the old NOM. Always great to hear a familiar voice!

Guy wrote: So I started looking at the church in a new light. I still don't believe that the Church is the one and only path to the CK. I still don't believe in the CK. I still don't believe in God. But I do believe in people! And I do know that many of the people that attend our Ward are GOOD people - including my DW and DS! So I've started attending SM again - for my family! And it's been good! It makes my wife very happy, and everyone knows that a happy wife makes for a happy life!!!

I too see the church in a different light. Once the anger subsided I realized the church is a building where good people come together. Hindsight tells me maybe I could have found a middle way to make it work and still maintain my friends and family ties but I will never know now I have resigned. I am happy to hear you are finding your way. The meeting with your bishop sounds promising. Please return and report! again.... welcome back!

This was interesting. The Bishop shared a story of a close friend who also went through a crisis in faith like most of us and in the end had his name removed from the records of the Church. But after many years discovered he was missing something in his life that only the Church - or the people of his Ward - provided. So he is back attending Church again, but remains steadfast a non-believer.

Guy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:30 am

wtfluff wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:26 am

Guy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:07 pm But he made the conscious decision to stay and look for the good/positive in the Church.

Curious. So does he believe that because he "looks for the good/positive" in the church, that the bad/negative parts of the church don't exist?

No. He understands there are still problems. And even now, as a believer and as a bishop, at times he struggles with those things.

The one point that I got from him is that he still believes in God, and still believes we all will one day be with God in the eternities. And because of that, for him the Church is the best place for him to practice that belief, even though the Church has its imperfections. Actually, I should correct that... even though the Leadership (past or present - but mostly past) has had their imperfections.

So I guess the next question is: Does the positive outweigh the negative? For me it doesn't. I'd guess people like your bishop view it the opposite. (And I guess I need to be OK with that, though I probably never will...)