NOM

Background: my kids haven't been active for almost a year. They still remember past church experiences, but they don't ask about it since our Sundays are now family fun days.

I need to be able to stand up for my kids (and myself) when old ward members try to guilt us into being active in church. Most recent example, we get stopped by an old primary teacher. As I'm pulling littlest out of the carseat, she proceeds to tell my kids they *should* be going to church and activity days. Then all the fun activities coming up. All the friends and teachers missing them. As I start to walk over, a lady I don't even remember, reached out to garment check my shoulder by rubbing it. I will forever leave the house in a tank top as this is the 3rd time this has happened in the last couple of months. I seriously don't get it, don't touch me.

I was so furious and I ended up just walking away. DH is sympathetic, but doesn't understand my anger. I need to have something memorized - something practiced - to say when they start trying to talk about church. My older kids are between 7-12, so they will obviously be hearing whatever I decide to say to tell these people to f*ck off. Any ideas?

It's against the law to indoctrinate children against the parents' wishes. I insist you leave my premises.

I like the tank top. No more garment checks. Brilliant.

Concerning your children, a fairly neutral approach is - "My children are minors. If you wish to invite them somewhere you need to discussed it with me, not them." As far as the garment check, "That is unwanted physical contact. Do not do it again." or if you want to be a little more aggressive, "My underwear is none of your **** business, get your hands off me."

Lady_Macbeth wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2017 4:25 pm I need to have something memorized - something practiced - to say when they start trying to talk about church. My older kids are between 7-12, so they will obviously be hearing whatever I decide to say to tell these people to f*ck off. Any ideas?

This is exactly what I was thinking. The problem is that the most effective things to say should probably be a conversation between adults.

Maybe something like "All invitations for our children need to come through the parents first. It's a family policy we've decided upon. In the future, please run it by me or my husband first."

And then maybe decide as a family that you should do this.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You SHOULD be taking your kids to church????

I think I would say to that, (if I wasn't dying of shock first), "I will decide what I should or should not be doing with my children. It's time for you to leave."

THAT IS RIDICULOUSLY RUDE!

I just smile and say no thanks when people talk to me, but no one has ever tried to should me about it. Good luck friend, that is just wrong.

How do you feel about resigning? I have always said that I will not resign as I still claim my Mormonism in my own way, but if people do not respect my boundaries I set with children, that is when I will resign.

I think you are on the right track. I would suggest something easy to remember, something soft and gentle; something cordial like F%#< Off. Easy to remember, hard for them to forget.

2bizE wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2017 7:30 pm I think you are on the right track. I would suggest something easy to remember, something soft and gentle; something cordial like F%#< Off. Easy to remember, hard for them to forget.

TBMs: such an awful combination of righteous certainty and no boundaries.

I liked the statements above in regards to letting them know you decide what your children "should" do and all invitations come through you.

What are you supposed to say?

If I can channel my best Merrie Miss ---- F#ck Off

I have always viewed "extra curricular activities" like activity days, scouts, and any YM/YW activities during the week as purely optional. With that in mind, maybe saying something like, "the activities of the church are there to support me as a parent as I think best for raising my children; it's not my duty to support the activities of the church just because you think we "should" go."

Besides, family fun time is already recognized as more important by the church: "However worthy and appropriate other demands or activities may be, they must not be permitted to displace the divinely-appointed duties that only parents and families can adequately perform” (First Presidency letter, 11 Feb. 1999; cited in Church News, 27 Feb. 1999, 3).

Lady_Macbeth wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2017 4:25 pmAs I start to walk over, a lady I don't even remember, reached out to garment check my shoulder by rubbing it. I will forever leave the house in a tank top as this is the 3rd time this has happened in the last couple of months. I seriously don't get it, don't touch me.

WTF? This is a thing that exists?

Perhaps she needs to be spoken to in her own terms--
"Whatever stewardship you imagine yourself to have, I guarantee you are reaching beyond it. Please don't do that any more. The Lord would not be pleased."

Mad Jax wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2017 6:45 am

Lady_Macbeth wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2017 4:25 pmAs I start to walk over, a lady I don't even remember, reached out to garment check my shoulder by rubbing it. I will forever leave the house in a tank top as this is the 3rd time this has happened in the last couple of months. I seriously don't get it, don't touch me.

WTF? This is a thing that exists?

Oh, Heaven's yes. It's in the form of a loving (platonic) rub on the back, shoulder or upper arm. It's always right on the garment line. The gesture is done with such a congenial manner that it's really impossible to object to it without coming across as a raving loony.

Your story implies the garment check was done by someone you were barely acquainted with. That is an inappropriate level of intimacy by a near stranger.

Mad Jax wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2017 6:45 am

Lady_Macbeth wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2017 4:25 pmAs I start to walk over, a lady I don't even remember, reached out to garment check my shoulder by rubbing it. I will forever leave the house in a tank top as this is the 3rd time this has happened in the last couple of months. I seriously don't get it, don't touch me.

WTF? This is a thing that exists?

I thought the same thing. And to garment checked three times.
Do men get garment checked?

2bizE wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2017 8:38 pm

Mad Jax wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2017 6:45 am

Lady_Macbeth wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2017 4:25 pmAs I start to walk over, a lady I don't even remember, reached out to garment check my shoulder by rubbing it. I will forever leave the house in a tank top as this is the 3rd time this has happened in the last couple of months. I seriously don't get it, don't touch me.

WTF? This is a thing that exists?

I thought the same thing. And to garment checked three times.
Do men get garment checked?

It's my impression guys don't customarily hug each other and rub the back in the garment line region while hugging.

Or hug and then move away, but keep the hands on the person in the garment line region, maintaining the conversation while rubbing the back or the arms.

Or come up to someone from behind, put hands on back and start a conversation while rubbing the back.

Or stand and talk to someone, put the hand on about the place the cap sleeve would fall and rub the hand on the arm while conversing.

So, no. I guess guys don't get the garment check.

Wow. Never thought of that.

Now that I've written all these out, they look kind of creepy.

I suspect I've been "garment checked" at dances thinking it was just a girl getting "too close" for church standards, now that I think about it.

Lady_Macbeth wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2017 4:25 pm ... reached out to garment check my shoulder by rubbing it.
Any ideas?

I know it is different for you ladies, but my inclination would be to ask them to scratch a little harder down about four inches and to the left. I would tell them that area on my back frequently itches and for them to feel free to do it anytime.

Contact the bishop and threaten legal action?

Or contact these people (text, email, voice) and request no contact?

I'm not one to give advice. In reality, I'd just take it unless I got mad, then I'd go off and go overboard, it wouldn't be pretty and I'd feel like hell for saying such horrible things.

I had an experience that made me laugh. Still does, really.

I was at a mid-singles New Year's Eve dance. I borrowed a really nice red velvet pantsuit from a friend. Because I get cold easily and because I didn't want garmy lines showing, I wore "long john" garmies. There was a man there who I'd met at the dances and conversed with each time. He kept looking at me, and I could tell he was looking for garment lines. Finally, he seemed to come to a conclusion that bothered him (not in a happy-to-him way). That conclusion was obviously that I was naked under the pantsuit.

What's even funnier, is if he would have asked me, I would have told him I was wearing long johns, even though I knew my underwear was none of his business. All that stress, poor guy.

moksha wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2017 10:23 pm

Lady_Macbeth wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2017 4:25 pm ... reached out to garment check my shoulder by rubbing it.
Any ideas?

I know it is different for you ladies, but my inclination would be to ask them to scratch a little harder down about four inches and to the left. I would tell them that area on my back frequently itches and for them to feel free to do it anytime.

Terrific answer. I say the sleeveless, leave no doubt option is good or just go with it and use their attack against them.