NOM

It was a difficult week. The kids woke before six on Saturday, husband had plans with friends in the morning and I spent the time cleaning the house, dreading Sunday, getting moodier, and all around depressed about things in general. When my husband came home, he had some sad news to relate and that's when I told him: I don't want to be active in the church anymore.

It ends up a friend/someone we know has (probably terminal) cancer. She's my age, has kids at home. She's the second person I know who is going through this right now. Suddenly, I was not only feeling down, I was feeling guilty, because so far as I know, I'm healthy and should be happy, right?

But this broke me. And I told him - if I found out I had very limited time left, I wouldn't waste another moment in church - someplace that has (as he admits) never made me happy. Why should I wait until I'm ready to die? Why shouldn't I be happy now?

We talked about it for a little while. Truth claims of the church never came up - I simply said I didn't like it and didn't want to go. We'll see what happens and where this goes. Instead of over analyzing it and talking about it all day, I said I was ready to stop talking about it, wanted to allow time to process it, I felt better getting it off my chest, and was ready to enjoy Saturday with my husband and kids who I love so, so much.

It was a big step and has been a long time in coming. I wish I'd done it years ago.

Oh MerrieMiss, I'm holding my breath for you. This is such a hard step to take. I confess that I haven't taken it yet but I am completely in your camp. I don't believe any of it anymore and it has no hold on me, and my immediate family is completely out, but I love singing in the choir and I love the choir director so I continue to attend. But every week it gets harder and harder.

When I read that you moved to a new place and still continued to go to church, my heart bled for you. Right now my only way out seems to be moving, and we're contemplating it in the next couple years. At that point in time I will be completely free and will probably never darken a church doorway again. The thought of moving to a new place and still having to play the Mormon game made me weep.

I am very proud of you for having to courage to do what you need to do to be happy. Fingers crossed and good thoughts headed your way for the future.

Moving is something that I have often considered as a way of escaping the accumulated weight of the expectations of years of people knowing the "tbm" me. But it makes me sad that I have to consider such drastic measures and I also had not considered the difficulty of navigating the expectations of the new ward.

I so badly want to do what you have done but as yet have not been able to summon the courage. Well done and I hope that you are able to work through it together so you can be happy.

I'm so sorry. What sad news.

I loved your thought process in this and the conversation you had. That it doesn't make you happy.

Right now I'm probably in the best version of TBM land I could be in. But I'm looking forward to a move in a few years like Jinx and I've already told my DH I won't be attending after the move.

Hope you have a wonderful day with your family!

I've been thinking about you since my previous post. I still mean what I said. I think the way they're treating you is coming from a very primal place. I got the type of treatment you describe, but I got it when I was going through something extremely difficult in my personal life.

I recently learned a coping device that I have used a couple of times in difficult situations. It's still new for me, but it's also worked, very well. I can't remember how the story started, so I'll make it up.

Buddha decided to conduct a one-time special seminar for his very most elite disciples. The title of the seminar was "How You Can Have Control In Difficult Situations". The disciples gathered on the appointed day and sat expectantly on the floor to hear the Buddha expound his great wisdom. The Buddha entered, sat down on the low platform that allowed him to be seen more easily. In his hand, he held a single flower. He sat and said nothing. He just sat and looked mindfully at that flower. After awhile, a warm, genuine smile came to his lips and brightened his face. It wasn't a fake smile intended to hide dark emotions, but a genuine, warm smile from the heart.

The lesson? When going into a difficult situation (like church), go in with the expectation that you will smile. That's it. No other expectations. You will smile a genuine, warm smile from the heart, because that is the one thing you can control.

You can spend sacrament time thinking of things for which you are grateful. I've also found the flower trick works pretty well, too. Once I start noticing the color variations and the patterns and the beauty of the flower, I do smile.

Furthermore, I do think this one tactic has de-escalated potentially toxic situations. At least, that's the impression I get. It may seem kind of corny, but it's so very simple and it truly does seem to work. Then, all those people who are treating you in such a primal fashion will be more likely to, not necessarily talk about your experiences, but they'll probably be more comfortable in approaching you and treating you a little better.

Hang in there Merrie Miss !!!!!!!!!!!! Someday soooooon it will be better . I like the smile tactic I may try it instead of sitting in SM thinking of things I would rather be doing.

God Bless.

I do smile in sacrament meeting. Genuinely and from the heart, because I love so many of the people around me and because the toxic doctrine that comes over the pulpit has no meaning to me and has no hold on me. I smile because I am free, because I am in SM because I want to be there. One of my good friends remarked that I smile a lot more since I stopped attending full time. I didn't say what I thought, that everyone would be happier if they didn't have to sit through three hours of church meetings!

Kudos on verbalizing it.

I want to be there too many days. Especially nice summer days (they are in short supply here in Idaho). I am not sure where I will end up, but certainly away from the far right TBM of my past.

DW let us skip stake conference with the kids and do a family weekend in Jackson Wy then through Grand Teton and Yellowstone NP's. Weather was amazing. We had a great time. Didn't miss boring and overreaching SC at all.

DW has agreed to allow us to do family weekend trips away sometimes when the weather is nice. I don't see it as the whole summer off and I don't see us skipping and staying home. It is a move in the right direction though.

Hang in there through the tough times MerrieMiss!

Nice job having a really hard conversation. It sounds like you handled it really well. The topic came up relatively organically, and you ended it before it became a painful experience for either of you. I hope it leads to better times in the future.

Your statement about not wanting to spend even one more moment of your remaining time in the church resonates - I've never thought of it that way, but I absolutely feel the same thing. I'm sorry for your friend (how heartbreaking), and I truly hope you can use that conversation to open further dialogue about the church.

I get it, completely.

I mostly want to be less-active. Not less active as the brethren describe it - which is really inactive.

I want to go when I feel like it and not have a calling of any type, and keep whatever rule I want - when I want.

But for now TR gone, Tithing Gone, Bishopric replaced with SS Pres. Regular undies and coffee instead of soda planned for later this year.

Slowly, slowly catchy monkey for me. But I do find myself audibly, but under my breath making expression of frustration when I hear some of the nonsense on a Sunday - it's usually when someone starts talking about the Devil. Just try to catch myself so I'm not heard saying FFS in the chapel. It's difficult some weeks.

So happy to see this post! I hope that things go swimmingly moving forward, MerrieMiss. Keep us updated.

I see a lot of heretics simply suffering through religious PTSD. The complete silliness of too many meetings that serve the institution more than the membership has taken an emotional toll on all of us. There are achingly refreshing posts on reddit.com/r/exmormon showing where apostates are joyfully spending their Sabbath Day somewhere other than church. Usually this includes being outside with the natural world along with accompanying pictures. Often it is staying home and relaxing with coffee. Being with family is a common theme. Having a break from church is something we all seem to need sooner than later.

Pres TSM feels the same and had made a public announcement about it.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... onson.html

Follow the prophet, he knows the way. I only wish I had the clout he does. Everyone says he is going to the CK. If I do the same they all say I am going to Hell.

redjay wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2017 1:52 pm I get it, completely.

I mostly want to be less-active. Not less active as the brethren describe it - which is really inactive.

I want to go when I feel like it and not have a calling of any type, and keep whatever rule I want - when I want.

But for now TR gone, Tithing Gone, Bishopric replaced with SS Pres. Regular undies and coffee instead of soda planned for later this year.

Slowly, slowly catchy monkey for me. But I do find myself audibly, but under my breath making expression of frustration when I hear some of the nonsense on a Sunday - it's usually when someone starts talking about the Devil. Just try to catch myself so I'm not heard saying FFS in the chapel. It's difficult some weeks.

This is more how I feel. So long as my kids and and husband are going I don't want to let go. If I was younger and single I'd walk away, but for now, I want to be there and be a part of it but only on my terms. Unfortunately, I don't think most Mormons can comprehend that. It's easier just to say I don't want to be active.

I don't feel very courageous. I feel small and cowardly. I remember sitting in a therapist's office a several years ago and telling her that - I was nothing like all of the people I admired who could be who they are and stand up for their beliefs. Instead I hide and keep silent, in the tall grass, as someone else put it.

Sometimes I tell myself that biding my time, being patient, and thinking it all through may be a form of courage. Not everyone has to react in the same way and my goal isn't to let the world know my beliefs, it's to preserve my relationships. It's a delicate balance.

I went to two hours of church on Sunday and my husband and I had a conversation after church about Sunday School. It was okay, but even when we talk I don't feel that I am being heard. I probably can't hear him very well either. And, just because I'd rather not go to church doesn't mean I won't. I'd rather not clean the bathrooms too, but sometimes it just has to get done. Of course, this sums up my entire church experience. I've never liked going, even when I believed it.

MerrieMiss wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2017 8:44 am I don't feel very courageous. I feel small and cowardly. I remember sitting in a therapist's office a several years ago and telling her that - I was nothing like all of the people I admired who could be who they are and stand up for their beliefs. Instead I hide and keep silent, in the tall grass, as someone else put it.

Sometimes I tell myself that biding my time, being patient, and thinking it all through may be a form of courage. Not everyone has to react in the same way and my goal isn't to let the world know my beliefs, it's to preserve my relationships. It's a delicate balance.

I went to two hours of church on Sunday and my husband and I had a conversation after church about Sunday School. It was okay, but even when we talk I don't feel that I am being heard. I probably can't hear him very well either. And, just because I'd rather not go to church doesn't mean I won't. I'd rather not clean the bathrooms too, but sometimes it just has to get done. Of course, this sums up my entire church experience. I've never liked going, even when I believed it.

I too grudgingly clean the bathrooms. As for courage - at least you're off the starting block, it takes a great deal of courage to even ask the question: what if I am wrong? What if my religion is not what it claims? My courage must be coupled with compassion for the people around me - not least my parents. And even when I am out to my children, I will still be closeted to one of my parents, for the sake of their health. So I feel as though my integrity is compromised for the sake of compassion - and that does not sit well with me, at all. But as I have a reasonable loving spouse, I feel fortunate.

Sometimes when someone posts about having their integrity, I cringe (about my choices / not theirs). Does it means I lack integrity by choosing to keep my lack of belief to online forums and my spouse and kids? I'm choosing a round about path to my destination. I don't say anything I don't believe but I attend, hold a calling, have a TR. Does this make me dishonest?

I feel dishonest too but I also feel I am forced into it. Thw choice is pain to those I love or pain to me. If I lay my burden down then they have to start carrying it.

Anon70 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2017 1:51 am Sometimes when someone posts about having their integrity, I cringe (about my choices / not theirs). Does it means I lack integrity by choosing to keep my lack of belief to online forums and my spouse and kids? I'm choosing a round about path to my destination. I don't say anything I don't believe but I attend, hold a calling, have a TR. Does this make me dishonest?

I certainly hope that it doesn't make you dishonest. I did it for years and now that I am inactive and tell some people that I do not believe, I don't feel more honest, just more open. Not being honest means telling a lie, not being open means not telling people everything about you when it may be none of their business. As long as you don't say things you don't believe, that makes you honest.

And sometimes honesty is not a virtue, like when your wife asks if this dress makes her look fat, or when the Nazies asks if you are hiding any Jews. Sometimes we don't tell the truth in order to protect someone, and that may not be "honest" but it is still the right thing to do.

Integrity is more than just telling the truth. Integrity is acting on your values. Your values may mean that you tell do not tell your wife, that yes, she looks fat in that dress, but tell your wife that she always looks beautiful, and maybe nuance about the dress as she has other clothing that flatter her figure more than this particular dress. That is integrity because your higher value is love and kindness. You acted on your highest value, not one of lesser value.

So, as long as you have reasons for staying below the radar, then you are still acting with integrity. I have not removed my name from church records. That would hurt my husband more than what it accomplishes for me. But I feel I am still acting with integrity because not hurting him is a higher priority than any kind of "statement to the world" (world doesn't care anyway) that I no longer consider myself Mormon.

So, hold your head high and know that you are doing your best to honor the things you hold most dear.