NOM

I have to admit i have heard this, though very infrequently. I never heard my father say it, nor my brothers, nor the guys around me saying it of their wives or girlfriends. It was something I usually heard on a sitcom and the speaker would promptly be called on the carpet about it.

Just yesterday and today, I read three get-to-know-you statements from three different co-workers and all of them said, "my wife doesn't let me..." I have been hearing this more frequently, lately, and the "control" factors range in seriousness. As in "my wife won't let me..."

(Pretty Implausible)
Drink Mountain Dew
Longboard

(Plausible)
Do extreme sports
Watch porn
Go to the West Indies with my neighbor's daughter

(Evil)
His ex-wife made him get a vasectomy (one of my co-worker's husband's story)
Won't let him out of the house (Complete lie. My ex said about me when we were meeting some people for the first time and I ended up yelling at him about it--because first impressions are lasting impressions)


How common is this? Is this just supposed to be something guys say to each other and they all understand it's just an excuse? Is it something they mature out of as their earning power increases and they decide if they want a Mountain Dew, they'll have a Mountain Dew? I can truly get a guy not participating in an extreme sport or looking​ at porn, out of respect for his wife's/girlfriend's wishes. He shouldn't blame his wife or girlfriend, but I can see the reason behind the language choice.

What about the vasectomy, though? I can see a woman not wanting to get a hysterectomy or not wanting to use birth control, because there are cases where these can negatively impact the woman's health. Therefore, a conscientious couple might conclude the man gets a vasectomy. I can see him not being thrilled about it. If he weren't in the relationship with this woman, he wouldn't be getting it, but she certainly didn't have a gun to his head. There may be other examples of coercion, but I'm not familiar with them.

The final one (mine) my ex wanted to move closer to my father to help my sister to take care of him. I didn't want to do it, because I didn't want to be caught between my abusive father and my abusive husband. I was homeschooling. I had another child and the house where we would be living would need to be renovated. I didn't want to do it, but I went along with it because I'm a good helpmeet. My ex would need to telecommute to make this happen. I didn't want that, because he's abusive and it's nice not having him home, but I went along with it because I'm a good helpmeet. Things didn't work out with my father and we moved within three months. I didn't want to do it, because this would and did estrange me with my entire family, but I went along with it, because I'm a good helpmeet. My ex decided to garage his car, because he just didn't need to have it registered now that he was telecommuting. I wasn't thrilled, but I went along with it because I'm a good helpmeet. So, after all that, to have my now ex say to these people we're meeting for the first time, "My wife doesn't let me out of the house" with a completely straight face and they believed him and looked properly scandalized, I confess I did set the record straight in what ended up being a very loud tone of voice.

I know this phrase is said, but how common is it? When it's mild, I'm she's it's understood to be an excuse, but as it gets more and more serious are there cases where this coercion is actually true? Or is it actually true?

I do know guys who have that submissive personality where It really is as if she wears the pants. Some people are just drawn to have that kind of relationship. I try not to judge them, my own mom (obligatory 'bless her heart' inserted here) is pretty emotionally manipulative, and it took being away for four years in the Corps to see it and build a fortification against it. Not everyone has that perspective change, and they end up marrying it. Or so I'm guessing.

But either way, in some cases it is a very real unhealthy relationship and they fill a kind need for one another. Its not as if I haven't had my share of messy relationships. TBH the sisters in the singles wards were some of the first SOs that provided healthy and therapeutic relationships for me.

That's interesting you finally got healthy relationships from the sisters in the singles ward. I don't think the church really has supporting healthy relationships and how to have them as a priority.

After, I posted, I remembered a poster from NOM 1.0 who gave his bishop his resignation and then his wife snatched it back. That, to me, would be a true case of his wife not letting him, because he didn't know he was resigned as soon as the PH leader saw the letter. My apologies to that poster, if he's here. I had forgotten about that and wanted to set it straight.

I know there are women who are truly manipulative, but at the end of the day, we do choose what we do. Even though I hated the obedience covenant and I hated my ex for how he'd exploit that I'd made it, I still acknowledged that I was choosing to do as I was, because I was being a good helpmeet. There did come a point when I chose not to be subjected to my ex or the covenant, anymore. That had its fun consequences, but I did make the choices.

I was reminded, recently, of the importance of acknowledging I have choice. I recently used the language "have to". As in I have to read my DXH's emails until all our children are emancipated. If I don't, I'm in contempt of court. I was reminded that it is more personally powerful to say I choose to read those emails, because I don't want to be in contempt of court. I've been more consciously and proactively trying those words on for size, because "have to" is just so automatic. You know what? It's true. It is more personally powerful to say, "I choose". I think potential predators know to listen for that language and it might actually get some (not all) moving on to an easier target. I don't know. Initial thoughts.

When a person's eyes have been opened, it's amazing to see how common it is to surrender our agency and sovereignty.

That's interesting you finally got healthy relationships from the sisters in the singles ward. I don't think the church really has supporting healthy relationships and how to have them as a priority.

Well none of them ever tried to kill me, or stole money from me to buy drugs, or asked me to kill their parents. So many of them were a step up in a lot of ways.

But I agree that there are healthier ways to approach a relationship than basing your life around the gospel plan of eternal marriage.

I know there are women who are truly manipulative, but at the end of the day, we do choose what we do. Even though I hated the obedience covenant and I hated my ex for how he'd exploit that I'd made it, I still acknowledged that I was choosing to do as I was, because I was being a good helpmeet. There did come a point when I chose not to be subjected to my ex or the covenant, anymore. That had its fun consequences, but I did make the choices.

I agree wholeheartedly, we're responsible for the choices we make and the actions we take. I'm just saying that this type of relationship does exist, and I can even understand how a man can be raised to be conditioned to behave this way. Women as well, of course.

I think it is just lazy speach for, "My wife doesn't like it and I would rather not do it than have her disappointed/angry." In most cases, they can make the choice, but they choose to keep peace at home rather than go against the other person's wishes.

Here is an example of a happy couple where the husband has been guilty of saying that. My son is married to a strong woman, very dominant personality. He is very easy going, and was the lazy youngest sibling, with two older sisters. Well, his wife was the older sister to younger brothers. She grew up with kind of a mother roll to her little brothers, and my oldest daughter "took care" of her younger brother, doing things for him that he was just too lazy to do. I was working, and so I didn't notice how much my oldest was "mothering" my youngest until she went off to college and he didn't know how to find out the cost of school lunch, where the bus stop was, what time the bus would come, anything. So, now, my son and his wife have slipped happily into the role they grew up in, with her "wearing the pants, doing the financial stuff, driving, making family plans, and he happily lets her do it all because he is the same lazy twit he was at ten. He has said the "My wife won't let me." And she looks at him like he is a worm until he corrects himself and says, "My wife doesn't like that and I want to keep her happy." Then, like a mother correcting a child who forgot to say please, she says, "That's better." It is kind of funny, but people like different things in a relationship.

When something is important, he can and does stand up to her, and she sees it is important to him and goes along with what he wants

Very colorful dating history there.

I pretty much agree with you on everything else. Don't need to add.

Sometimes I see it used as a cop-out. Blame the wife to get out of something he didn't want to do anyway. Or as a joke. I don't love it but I don't always assume it's a true statement.

I told my DH he could blame me with a certain aggressive 'friend' he doesn't want to hang out with. He may have said this, but if he wanted to spend time with this guy he could.

alas wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2017 5:48 pm I think it is just lazy speach for, "My wife doesn't like it and I would rather not do it than have her disappointed/angry." In most cases, they can make the choice, but they choose to keep peace at home rather than go against the other person's wishes.

Here is an example of a happy couple where the husband has been guilty of saying that. My son is married to a strong woman, very dominant personality. He is very easy going, and was the lazy youngest sibling, with two older sisters. Well, his wife was the older sister to younger brothers. She grew up with kind of a mother roll to her little brothers, and my oldest daughter "took care" of her younger brother, doing things for him that he was just too lazy to do. I was working, and so I didn't notice how much my oldest was "mothering" my youngest until she went off to college and he didn't know how to find out the cost of school lunch, where the bus stop was, what time the bus would come, anything. So, now, my son and his wife have slipped happily into the role they grew up in, with her "wearing the pants, doing the financial stuff, driving, making family plans, and he happily lets her do it all because he is the same lazy twit he was at ten. He has said the "My wife won't let me." And she looks at him like he is a worm until he corrects himself and says, "My wife doesn't like that and I want to keep her happy." Then, like a mother correcting a child who forgot to say please, she says, "That's better." It is kind of funny, but people like different things in a relationship.

When something is important, he can and does stand up to her, and she sees it is important to him and goes along with what he wants

This is the second time your posts haven't shown up for me at the time they've posted. I don't really have anything to add. I don't know what's going on and I wish your posts would show.

Anon70 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2017 8:12 pm Sometimes I see it used as a cop-out. Blame the wife to get out of something he didn't want to do anyway. Or as a joke. I don't love it but I don't always assume it's a true statement.

This is how I see the comments I read today and yesterday. Maybe they don't see the Mountain Dew, the longboarding and the extreme sport as important as they once did, but blame their wives for the change when it's actually something they wanted. That's what happened in my case, but it was several big things here wanted to do all blamed on me in one big lump. Frankly, I have heard this type of statement so seldom, it was actually kind of enlightening to read what these guys wrote. Still, they should own it. Big, small. Own it.

I still have too little to go on for the vasectomy. I just really doubt a doctor would have not performed the procedure if he saw any uncertainty in the man.

Then, there's the porn or the poker night or whatever the wife may want him to give up they he really, truly would rather not, but he does for the sake of harmony. This is like what I now say about the emails. I choose to do it, because I don't want to be held in contempt.

Then, there are the ones who truly are at the mercy of theirs wives. Actually, I can see just going along to get along, living some sort of half life, there. That's a situation one just needs to leave it to the parties to figure out and respect what they decide.

trophywife26.2 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2017 8:27 pm I told my DH he could blame me with a certain aggressive 'friend' he doesn't want to hang out with. He may have said this, but if he wanted to spend time with this guy he could.

My mother did this with me with a particularly pushy friend. I did it for each of my sons, when the time came.

That reminds me of a time I used that line, except I'm a female. Back when I was active in church a bishopric member invited me to attend temple prep class. This would happen from time to time as an unendowed adult and I would usually come up with some excuse. This time I told the bishopric member that my husband, who was kinda anti, didn't want me to go to the temple. Didn't really plan to throw my husband under the bus, but it was a convenient excuse at the time.

NOMinally Mormon wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2017 4:23 pm That reminds me of a time I used that line, except I'm a female. Back when I was active in church a bishopric member invited me to attend temple prep class. This would happen from time to time as an unendowed adult and I would usually come up with some excuse. This time I told the bishopric member that my husband, who was kinda anti, didn't want me to go to the temple. Didn't really plan to throw my husband under the bus, but it was a convenient excuse at the time.

Actually, I can see that happening.

I think I used the line. At the time, I think I was trying to let people know that there was something seriously wrong about the relationship between me and my wife. The level of manipulation had grown out of control. The things I was "not allowed" to do was crazy long: look at an electronic device on Sunday, go out with friends occasionally, watch TV on conference Saturday, laugh at the dinner table, . . . . I once ended up in the doghouse after giving one of my children a hug to comfort them. My wife did not want their germs getting on me. I got into counseling, and I feel much better with good boundaries. I don't use the line anymore.

blazerb wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 5:21 pm I think I used the line. At the time, I think I was trying to let people know that there was something seriously wrong about the relationship between me and my wife. The level of manipulation had grown out of control. The things I was "not allowed" to do was crazy long: look at an electronic device on Sunday, go out with friends occasionally, watch TV on conference Saturday, laugh at the dinner table, . . . . I once ended up in the doghouse after giving one of my children a hug to comfort them. My wife did not want their germs getting on me. I got into counseling, and I feel much better with good boundaries. I don't use the line anymore.

I really relate to this. My ex would lay down the craziest laws and restrictions and then I'd have to be the one to liaise with the public about them. I would come up with the crazy-assest excuses, because I was so ashamed of what I had become because I was honoring the obedience covenant. I was ashamed of myself and my marriage.

BTW, blazerb, just as I stated for Rebel. There are situations where there is genuine coercion. I don't think it's throwing your spouse under the bus if you're telling the truth. If all the facts were laid out on the table and any objective person would agree with you. I think it's a call for help. If the statement is true then the person needs to look at it and recognize they are being robbed of their agency, and you did.

Thanks Give It Time. I especially empathize with this:

Give It Time wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 9:15 pm I really relate to this. My ex would lay down the craziest laws and restrictions and then I'd have to be the one to liaise with the public about them. I would come up with the crazy-assest excuses, because I was so ashamed of what I had become because I was honoring the obedience covenant. I was ashamed of myself and my marriage.

"Crazy-assest" is exactly the way to describe it. In my case, I felt a duty to "protect" my family. So if my wife wanted something a particular way, I was the one who had to make sure it happened including explaining to everyone else that it had to happen. Once it almost got me beat up.

blazerb wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 3:19 am Thanks Give It Time. I especially empathize with this:

Give It Time wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2017 9:15 pm I really relate to this. My ex would lay down the craziest laws and restrictions and then I'd have to be the one to liaise with the public about them. I would come up with the crazy-assest excuses, because I was so ashamed of what I had become because I was honoring the obedience covenant. I was ashamed of myself and my marriage.

"Crazy-assest" is exactly the way to describe it. In my case, I felt a duty to "protect" my family. So if my wife wanted something a particular way, I was the one who had to make sure it happened including explaining to everyone else that it had to happen. Once it almost got me beat up.

I'm curious about that, but only if you want to share.

This thread hits home today as I had one of the worst fights of my 10+ year marriage last night. In trying to implement some kind of change post-faith transition, I suggested caffeinated sodas and R-rated movies as small things to start with. She exploded. She was angrier than I’ve ever seen her. I promised her those things before our marriage and now I’m suggesting breaking those promises. That’s all she sees. Those changes are absolutely unacceptable.

So in light of what you’ve posted, if I continue to comply with those restrictions so she doesn’t divorce me, you’d say it’s inaccurate for me to say, “My wife won’t let me have a Coke”? I agree with you that we should own our choices but, at one point, the steep penalties connected to a choice make it feel like there isn’t really much choice for me in the matter.

We were living in an apartment at the time on the bottom floor of a 2 story building. It was an older building, and my wife was constantly complaining about the noise made by our upstairs neighbors walking. My wife had become reasonably friendly with the owner by reporting a woman for living with her boyfriend. One day, my wife called the owner to complain about the noise from the upstairs neighbor. Apparently the owner called the upstairs neighbor to try to mediate. When I got home, the neighbor came out to let me know what he thought about the situation. It was pretty aggressive. I quickly ended the conversation to try to figure out what had happened. My wife informed me.

I should have let it drop, but I felt it was necessary to explain my wife’s position to the neighbor. Luckily for me, before I could go back I spoke with a friend. He gave some good advice about limits on defending certain requests. When I went back to the neighbor, he was not any happier, and there really isn’t a way to ask someone not to walk around in their apartment. I thanked the neighbor for some help he had given us previously. Our relationship was strained the rest of the time we lived there, but the worst was defused. If I had not talked with my friend, the situation could have been much worse.

TestimonyLost wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 8:34 am This thread hits home today as I had one of the worst fights of my 10+ year marriage last night. In trying to implement some kind of change post-faith transition, I suggested caffeinated sodas and R-rated movies as small things to start with. She exploded. She was angrier than I’ve ever seen her. I promised her those things before our marriage and now I’m suggesting breaking those promises. That’s all she sees. Those changes are absolutely unacceptable.

So in light of what you’ve posted, if I continue to comply with those restrictions so she doesn’t divorce me, you’d say it’s inaccurate for me to say, “My wife won’t let me have a Coke”? I agree with you that we should own our choices but, at one point, the steep penalties connected to a choice make it feel like there isn’t really much choice for me in the matter.

I hear you. I've been in a similar place so, so many times.