LDS Church and BSA part ways

[moksha]

The Church is withdrawing its participation from the Boy Scouts of America. They will still pay their dues for 2017 and 2018 so the BSA will not collapse as it struggles to find other funding sources. They will be looking to come up with an alternative program for the boys over age 13.

[fh451]

The news article I saw said they were just not doing Varsity/Venture scouting anymore. Do you think this is a precursor to the church cutting off scouts completely?

LDS Church to no longer participate in Varsity, Venture Scouting

fh451

[Rob4Hope]

Been rumors of this for a long time. I lived smack dab in the middle of SLC, and the Scouting Program has always taken a back-seat (IMHO) to the Duty to God. And I've never, in my 20 years of being involved, seen the "patrol method" actually work.

I don't think they are dropping the Scouting Program--they never were in it in the first place. They are just pulling the financial plug. So much for "Friends of Scouting Drives"....

HURRAY!!!!

[wtfluff]

Let's be clear that they are only dropping Scouting for the 14-18 year-olds, not the entire program. From Cubs up to 13 years old they still get to have all the fun.

Even though I've heard the rumors for years, this is still a bit of a shock to me. In my family of origin, getting your "Eagle" was somewhat of a "commandment". Almost right up there with going on a mission (for those of the male persuasion anyway.) I have family members who are EXTREMELY enmeshed in the scouting program; It seems that this could cause a "chink" in the testimony-armor. At least in the MorCor I could see folks like this taking their Scouting Ball and attending a different church's scouting program where they'll still get to play Scouts. There are quite a few non-denominational / Christian church's in the Salt Lake valley that have strong scouting programs. I guess I'll have some fun questions to ask at the next family reunion. I also wouldn't be surprised to see some folks actually "leave the church" over this. (Not a bad thing... )

I wonder if the decision has anything to do with the BSA's "more liberal" views related to gay and transgender folks, or if the Corporation has decided that Scouting isn't preparing the males well enough for their two years of indentured servitude, and the Corp. thinks they can train young males better without Scouting?

I don't think they are dropping the Scouting Program--they never were in it in the first place. They are just pulling the financial plug. So much for "Friends of Scouting Drives"....

Sorry to dash your hopes Rob, but there's a Q&A section on mormonnewsroom that states that the Friends of Scouting drives will continue. Still gotta fund the young scouts before it gets yanked out from under them at 14...

[Brent]

Friends of Scouting will continue...but if you child is 14 will you pay in anymore? I've been YMP and I never encountered a young man who was gung-ho to wear his uniform to Mutual. The Trib has an article on this and in there they mention that at 14 girls come into a young man's social circle and the boys passively opt out. I would think that, in the end, the number of LDS Eagles will start to drop. I could make a 12 year old wear the BSA shirt but once they're 14 it was all over. The interest in Eagle for older boys always seemed to coincide with mission prep and a desire to touch cultural bases if at all possible. Generally speaking, from my experience, if your Mom didn't want you to be an Eagle Scout--you weren't.

[Mormorrisey]

Never was a huge fan of scouts. Hated it as a kid, as we had a gun-ho ex-Marine as our troop leader, and I thought he was a fascist in disguise. (Was pretty much on the left even as a kid!!). Hated it even more as a YM leader and in bishoprics, and I have to be honest, not really sad to see it go. Even as I can recognize why some would be sad; I'm sure if it were run properly, it could be good for young men. One of the best stories ever about scouting came as a good friend tried to explain scouts to a German colleague he worked with. After explaining what it was, this German guy said, "Ja, we tried something similar in Germany. It didn't work out so well." Comedy gold.

What I found interesting as I looked on lds.org, is what they are going to replace scouting with, just a bunch of activities that seem so fun. For the love of all that is holy, the fun church of my youth with roadshows, cool activities and the like is being replaced by the Bednarization of theological blahness. God help the young people, no wonder they're leaving in droves.

https://www.lds.org/youth/ymactivities? ... #resources

Take a look at the number one activity under the "physical" category. Cleaning a church building. Every member a janitor!

[Rob4Hope]

I don't think they are dropping the Scouting Program--they never were in it in the first place. They are just pulling the financial plug. So much for "Friends of Scouting Drives"....

Sorry to dash your hopes Rob, but there's a Q&A section on mormonnewsroom that states that the Friends of Scouting drives will continue. Still gotta fund the young scouts before it gets yanked out from under them at 14...

#!)#!%*!)$#(&!!!

[Corsair]

This sounds like it's going to be a big change. I'm helping plan scout camp in my ward right now and trying to get a few more Eagle awards for this year. It's going to slow the number of Eagles down to a trickle of gung ho young men who get it by age 14. Surely the new Duty to God will not be an improvement.

[Archimedes]

The church is not the only supporter of scouting. If a kid turns 14 and wants to continue in the program he can always join a community program. This move may actually be good for some of the local, non-Church troops.

PS If the LDS church thinks that omitting the scouting program for boys 14-18 will help decrease the number of them *not* going on missions, think again. They have had plenty of chances to indoctrinate the youth between 0-13; additional Church brow-beating between 14-18 is not going to increase the number of missionaries in the "field."

[moksha]

Were there boys who quit going to church altogether because they were not interested in scouting?

[Linked]

I just saw a headline that "Mormon church pulls older teens out of Boy Scouts" and it mentions that the church is pulling as many as 185,000 youth out.

That grinds my gears. The church doesn't own those 185,000 youth. Those boys are not the church's to pull out. But really, effectively, they are, and most will pull out.

Hopefully this spurs a conversation in each family about whether or not each boy would like to continue in scouts and the boys that really enjoy it can continue to participate. It would be nice if the boys who choose to participate in scouts would be exempted from the new mutual activities, but that's not going to happen. Anyone that wants to continue what the church led them to will have to do it on top of the church sanctioned activities or be labelled less faithful. Lame.

[crossmyheart]

Hopefully this adds one more heavy weight on shelves everywhere. Unfortunate, but it was inevitable as the church doesn't want to associate with anyone that approves of LGBT issues.

My DS has been in a community cub scout troop ever since he was 6/1st grade. LOVE IT. They go on campouts at an earlier age than what a ward troop would, they participate in overnights at the zoo, ball park and science museum, and generally just seem to have a lot more fun stuff to do outside of the actual meetings. Plus the kids and parents participate because they WANT to not because they HAVE to.

So glad we didn't cave into family pressure to wait and start him in the ward troop.

[Just This Guy]

Does make you wonder how much of this is another cost savings move on the part of the church? While the church begs a lot of money from parents for scouting, it also puts in a lot of their own. The COB is probably drooling about the money they won't have to give out now. Why give it to an outside organization when they only have limited say over when they can instead put less money into another underfunded youth program.

The other question is once BSA is free of the church constantly handing over them, where will they take the program?

[AllieOop]

The other question is once BSA is free of the church constantly handing over them, where will they take the program?

Well, there is some discussion that the church made this decision because there is talk of allowing girls to join the program (making it coed):

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy ... ls-n754541

Some are saying that the church got out now rather than wait and see if this happens. It would look bad if they left after girls were allowed in

Here's a quote from the article:

Leaders of the Boy Scouts of America will take the first tentative steps Thursday toward considering whether to add more opportunities for girls in an organization that has been primarily for boys since it was founded 107 years ago, according to scouting officials.

The subject will be discussed at a meeting of chapter representatives and other leaders at the organization's headquarters in Irving, Texas, the officials said.

An official described the meeting as a chance to hear from the scouting community about whether to move ahead on creating more places for girls to participate.

"A single parent with a boy and a girl wants to be able to take them to the same place at the same time for scouting activities," said one local Scout leader.

[AllieOop]

I had no idea that the scout program for this age group originated in the church:

And the irony? That the two programs being dropped actually trace their roots back to the LDS Church, which formally affiliated with Scouting in 1913, three years after the incorporation of the Boy Scouts of America.

In 1928, Scouting became the official activity program for deacons and teachers of the LDS Church’s Aaronic Priesthood, and that same year the church created Vanguard Scouting, an advanced program for boys ages 15 and 16. Several years later, BSA asked for — and received — permission to use the Vanguard Scouting as a template for its own new “Explorer Scouts” program.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... irony.html

This article also states the purpose for the new program being instigated to replace scouting:

“Now these young men will have an opportunity to have a program that is focused directly on helping them to be better prepared as missionaries, to be better prepared to live lives of service in the community and in the church.”

I wonder how much will be focused on missionary prep now?

[Give It Time]

I'm wondering if the budget for the young men in this age group will decrease and they can look forward to spending their weekday evenings walking around temple square and planning their weddings.

[Anon70]

I'm wondering if the budget for the young men in this age group will decrease and they can look forward to spending their weekday evenings walking around temple square and planning their weddings.

Best comment today. Lol.

[rosebud]

My goodness this is so overdue... about 20 -30 years later than it should have lasted.

I know they have only announced for older scouts but I have to assume that the church will slowly move away from the boy scouts and cub scouts over the next 8-10 years. Just a guess.

I have always thought it was strange how the scouting program and becoming an Eagle Scout were somehow conflated with the idea of righteousness in our young men. Even when Duty to God came out, they soldiered on with it.

Against my better judgment we put our son in cub scouts with the church but were already planning to move him to a community pack next year. Half the boys don't want to be there and half the parents don't like the program at all. This turns into a situation where there is lots of turnover with the leaders (many of whom hate serving there and/or simply don't have an interest because they did not enjoy scouts as a kid - don't blame them at all), which equals activity nights full of chaos when nothing is planned half the time. We will be happy to join an outside pack and happy to volunteer our time there since our son likes going.

One article I read reported the church spokesman as saying that there have always been inequities in how much money was spent on the young men vs. the young women so this will help with that.

So it is financially motivated in part - although I assume it means less money for the young men, not more money for the young women.

[Brent]

Here's the question:

Does Scouting drive young men out of the church?

If yes, well, fixed that.

If no....oops?

[Korihor]

I'm kinda sad about this. I enjoyed scouts for the most part.
However the better parts have been slowly neutered out the past 15 +\- years.