NOM

So, two weeks ago I posted I left church feeling sick about the teachings and had decided not to attend church for a while.

I told the Bishop I wouldn't be attending and a very nosy (not sincerely) nosy lady in the ward. Thus everyone in the ward knows I will not be attending for a while.

Last night, I received a call from the RS president whom has not spoken a word to me in a while. She politely said I'm calling to relieve you of your visiting teaching assignment. What??? I thought. I told her I don't mind doing it, I love to serve. She continued to say well we are still relieving you of your assignment. Now irritated, I said OK? She then asked me if I would still like to have visiting teachers. I said well if I am not going to be allowed to be a visiting teacher then no I don't want visiting teachers. She politely said ok, but we will still have sisters come over as "friends" because you are a friendly gal. Boiling at this point, I politely said ok and ended the conversation.

WTF! I know I haven't written my intro story yet but I have served in the RS and as a VT since before I was 18 (because I was that type of molly mormon). Thats about 15yrs of service and visiting teaching. Also serving in RS callings and at times serving other families before my own. Then the second I fall slightly out of line I get dismissed with a cold shoulder not even having a say in the matter??!? I was furious and hurt. This controlling improper use of authority, lack of communication, fear of those that are different and lack of tack, love, humanity and kindness is why I am currently disgusted with the church culture.

I responded to the BP and RS pres in a text explaining my disappointment in their actions. The next day the BP called and apologized saying there had been some miscommunication. (What miscommunication within the church!!) I told him I understand, he was very nice and asked if I wanted to continue with visiting and I politely said No, I will serve the lord, my sisters, neighbors and friends on my own with out the assignment.

The whole ordeal left me so upset. Especially since the RS pres nor any other member of our ward has said one thing to me about me questioning the church. I quite my calling, started disagreeing in lessons, quite going to sacrament, voted opposed and now am not going to church yet not ONE person has asked me about it. 1 maybe 2 have asked Kori but not one person has asked me how I am or what I am thinking or going through. It makes me sick that fear overcomes love in the place that preaches love but thats the thing right? The fear teaching has become more important than the teachings of love thus creating this fearful culture.

PS. My new favorite quote through this transition is "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" their intent was to help me out so I didn't have so much to worry about. Well maybe if you started by having a real and honest conversation with me that would have been great but instead you TOLD me what I could do.

Last, promise. I am grateful for this community for giving me a place to rant and a place where I can read and understand the stories of others who are going through the same thing as me.

Sorry, I can't stop laughing for a second. Kori used to change his avatar to flaming on fire hair depending on his upset he was. I had to check to see if you did the same.

The problem is that the church doesn't teach people how to manage conflict or to help out those in need. The church should be a hospital, complete with triage, spiritual first aid kits, and even testimony life support systems. As we know, it's not. It's more like a car dealership for the wealthy or worse, like a really expensive mall in a metropolitan down town area.

Good intentioned members probably think you want out by your disaffiliation and opposed votes. To be honest, you guys probably confuse the hell out of them. So they pull back rather than embrace. This is a symptom of the black and white, all or nothing, attitude in the church.

The most important part of this journey is to maintain your own integrity. If this means you serve your neighbors and friends than do so on your terms. Take back your own power and ability to do what you believe in. This also means we can't be choosey. We can't be offended when we leave and they bother us. We also can't be offended when we leave and they don't bother us.

May I suggest a new quote?

The road out of Mormonism is paved with indifference.

Nearly the same thing happened to me, in reverse.

When I was a newlywed, I felt overwhelmed at it all and all my responsibilities. I worked 60-70 hours a week. The man I'd married had baited and switched me. I was having trouble figuring this all out. In an effort to simplify, I called my RSP and asked to be temporarily pulled out of the VT cycle. I didn't want to VT nor be taught. I was thinking 3-6 months ought to do it. Holy Hell the crap that woman gave me! She somehow thought I was calling her to tell her I was going inactive! WTH?! Who would be stupid enough to call their RSP and say they're going inactive?! Anyway, she begged me not to do it. She pleaded with me to let her​ help me. JUST KEEP DOING YOUR VISITING TEACHING, PUHLEEEEEASE!

She let me out of my route, but two "friends" would be assigned to come over. So, whether you're TBM or NOM, they WILL harass you against your will. The whole thing got so uncomfortable, I eventually went inactive for a year. Then, I decided it was stupid to let that woman control me, that way. So, I started attending, again. Two years later, this woman raised her hand in SS and, in a comment, told her warped version of my story and then said that I would have to stand before God for that.

First of all, I feel for you. They are taking this from you, because they see it as important to you. Act non-chalant and brownies will magically appear on your doorstep in six months.

Second, I'm actually a little jealous. I wish they'd released me that easily.

Third, I maintain my point of view VT and HT are nothing more than creepy, invasive attempts to keep their hooks in you. I'm told Scientology has a similar program.

Fourth, as I've written this up, this is some crazy, wackitude sh*t. I think you're going to come to be grateful you're out of it.

Fifth, my quote comes from Helen Mirren. At 70 years-old my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*¢k off" much more frequently.

Sorry they are treating you that way .

People and institutions who are confident don't act that way; people and institutions who are fragile and scared do. However, just to show that the Bible can be used to justify anything you want, and that the New Testament isn't all about hippy Jesus love, this one just came to mind:

Mathew 5:30:

"And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

Forget the "leave the ninety-nine to find the one" and the "thanks for your tens of thousands of dollars and decades of service." You are no longer useful to the institution and are seen as a threat to "the whole body", so it seems that you are being "cast off". The work of the Lord will go on, (ig)nobly, boldly (ignoring truth and the wreaked lives and families left in its wake), and independent (of any rational thought)!

Did anyone want to listen to you for an explanation? My experience is they want to visit you and either make small talk for 45 minutes, or bear their testimony. They don't want to listen. Thanks for your posts.

deacon blues wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2017 5:53 pm Did anyone want to listen to you for an explanation? My experience is they want to visit you and either make small talk for 45 minutes, or bear their testimony. They don't want to listen. Thanks for your posts.

Decon blues, No one has taken the time to ask or listen to my explanation or experience. Yes I have been visited with small awkward talk but no one in the church wants to really talk and even worse no one in the church wants to discuss the gospel let alone any questions or problems that might arise.

Give it time,

Thank you for your experience. I've seen that happen in the church many times too. People in leadership begin to think they are inspired to tell others what is best for their lives. That is seriously messed up what that RSP did to you. - Sorry

Kori LOVES your quote

my quote comes from Helen Mirren. At 70 years-old my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*¢k off" much more frequently.

I will say my vocabulary has added a few 4 letter words over the past few months.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2017 3:36 pm To be honest, you guys probably confuse the hell out of them. So they pull back rather than embrace. This is a symptom of the black and white, all or nothing, attitude in the church.

Red Ryder,

We probably are confusing the hell out of our ward and no one knows how to talk to us. I personally have doubts and frustrations but also want to be 100% sure before leaving and I guess I am not ready to leave. However the culture is now what is pushing me out when I wanted to stay and figure out the doctrine. In having any differences of opinion, people assume you want to leave and they fear you. Why can't we all just be truth seekers? The road to transitioning is difficult and makes me a hypocrite, confused, lost, unsure, wishy washy going back and forth on thoughts. I confuse myself so I am sure I am confusing other people. I wish I had a story where I just read all night and knew it was either right or wrong but thats not my story and unfortunately my story is long, drug out and confusing.

P.S. 2 years ago I was struggling with the black and white concept and after prayer and reading the Brethren's comments decided to go with them and I even publicly announced everything WAS B&W. Now I am embarrassed at that former self and HATE the B&W concept. I don't believe in everything being Grey either. I believe the world is a colorful place and full of a wide variety of colorful experiences.

Thanks for your comments. My hair is naturally on fire so I don't need to the avatar.

Misbehaved Woman wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2017 3:06 pm The whole ordeal left me so upset. Especially since the RS pres nor any other member of our ward has said one thing to me about me questioning the church. I quite my calling, started disagreeing in lessons, quite going to sacrament, voted opposed and now am not going to church yet not ONE person has asked me about it. 1 maybe 2 have asked Kori but not one person has asked me how I am or what I am thinking or going through.

I hate to blame everything on gender, but sometimes I really have to wonder about it all. I have had so many frustrating conversations with my husband about how no one in the ward will come to me directly, they always go to him. "Do you think MerrieMiss would like to talk in sacrament meeting?" "Would MerrieMiss like to help out at the Christmas party?" "Does MerrieMiss like her calling?" And for about a year I stopped going to sacrament meeting, no one asked me me where I was, called me, reached out to me, nothing. But they did ask my husband. "Where's MerrieMiss been recently?" I am so tired of people asking questions about me through him. I am a person and deserve to be treated as one. And I don't know how I come across here, but in real life, I am a very polite, respectful person. Quiet, yes, but the idea that I am frightening is laughable.

So yes, sometimes I wonder if there's some kind of gender thing involved, as in, a woman can't possibly have an opinion, think, or needs the permission of her husband before she can have an opinion. And it shouldn't surprise me. After all, a man presides in RS and can correct anything a woman says. He tells the Primary, YW, and RS president how to do their job. In the church, there's nothing really where a woman has any say in anything that isn't patronizing and superseded by a male. It shouldn't come as any surprise that women are ignored and their opinions/thoughts/feelings seen as less important. Just my experience, maybe it's different in other places.

It's doubtful anyone will ever ask you why. Mormons (most people, actually) are conflict averse and just want to ignore everything in hopes that it will go away. I'm sorry this happened to you. It's very hurtful.

MerrieMiss wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2017 6:57 pm I hate to blame everything on gender, but sometimes I really have to wonder about it all.

Thank you for your thoughts!

Isn't it sad that we have to say "I hate to blame everything on gender" as if we are out of line blaming it on gender when it is fact we get overlooked, talked down to or not talked to at all. I think I have been trying my whole life to prove that women matter in the church but the more I try the more I realize how awful it is. It is very patronizing and frustrating the way women are treated in the church but what infuriates me is when Women say this is not happening. I feel your pain sister.

I'm sorry this happened to you.

But...part of me is wondering how I can use this to my advantage when I'm ready. I often fantasize about leaving. I have a timeframe. It usually involves a move. But maybe it won't need to. I'll just vote opposed, say I'm having doubts and can't have a calling. Honestly, do all of the other active non believers know!?

I'm joking a little. But we agonize over leaving and it's affects on our family and friends and communities. And ourselves. But it sure doesn't seem like they do. Boom. You're gone.

Sounds like some one-upmanship is going on. They are saying, "You can't quit, you're fired!"

This is where you get to be more Christian than them - ironic.

I was your RS President. OK, not literally. However, I have been the idiot trying to do the 'right thing' and in actuality been an insensitive muppet.

I was on the bishopric not too long ago when the other counsellor said that he had been in Gospel Doctrine class and the teacher wasn't teaching from the book and some of the teaching was a little loose/non-doctrinal/or something; also it wasn't the first time.

So we (me included) took the decision to release the teacher.

I took the teacher into a room the following Sunday and released him. When he asked why, I told him. You could see he felt rejected, he didn't see things the way they had been presented to me. I felt like an oaf. I apologised to him a week later for my approach - he was very gracious, he is now fairly inactive. Incidentally we are friends.

The church is about control, anyone who threatens that control is removed. Church members think they are acting for the greater good by enforcing that control (protecting the flock).

To 99.99% of the church voting opposed is seen as apostasy - they have no idea about common consent, it might be taught every in a lesson every 4 years, but it never really registers.

You have the advantage of perspective, they don't.

I'm mad at the institution - and have my own beefs which I rant on here about, so I get it. But as I said, just over a year ago I was your RS Pres.

MerrieMiss wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2017 6:57 pm I have had so many frustrating conversations with my husband about how no one in the ward will come to me directly, they always go to him.

This is what my DW experienced so many times! That male dominated misogamist priesthood culture is a big factor. The other factor is that most TBMs will see someone that is struggling in the same way they see someone with a highly contagious and deadly disease; that Satan has a hold of them and they are now toxic. Those that are brave enough to venture a conversation are more interested in curing the broken person much more than they are in actually listening to them to see their view.

I've experienced similar things. Just reminders that this is a cult we're dealing with. Cults are characterized by the need to CONTROL everything and everyone. It's actually evil even according to their ideas of evil, but another thing about cults is they have no self-awareness because "they" are herd mentality, & in this case, based on many years of dysfunctional (& admittedly some good) traditions.

I like how you mentioned you'll just serve on your own - show by example how to serve without being commanded in all things. I told our RS pres something similar since I don't VT anymore either. When I feel inspired, or if it's someone's b-day, I try to do something nice, & I feel better, more genuine about it.

Wow! That was totally sh*tty of them to treat you like that.

It sucks when you finally realize what you mean to the church. I mean we grow up in the church loving it and serving and sacrificing for it. It's our world. So you would think there would be some sort of reciprocation when we are struggling. But that is not the case.

I think the church sees people as objects. We are only valued for our "usefulness" and how well we work for the system.

The problem is we are not objects, we are people, We are dynamic and complex and we need to be loved, not used.

I think your response to them was perfect. They could learn a lot from you. I'm glad you are here with us now.

I feel the same way. I was one of those who literally gave everything I had to the church: heart, mind, soul, and pocketbook. But once I backed off it was like I never existed. Not one "friend" from the church has ever reached out to me. And even worse, my wife, who is still TBM, has been given the cold shoulder by all but 1 or 2, those being women who also have unbelieving spouses. Sad.

Misbehaved Woman wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2017 6:14 pm Decon blues, No one has taken the time to ask or listen to my explanation or experience. Yes I have been visited with small awkward talk but no one in the church wants to really talk and even worse no one in the church wants to discuss the gospel let alone any questions or problems that might arise.

One thing that happened immediately (for me) was I felt like I became a pariah. This was with my ward members, the leaders and my family members who were TBM. I went from being someone that people sought out for advice or information regarding church topics, doctrines, etc. (and I wasn't really comfortable with that either) to being someone who all of a sudden knew nothing in their eyes. Zero. I felt like I was poison all of a sudden. It was a very strange part of my experience with exiting the church.

And, not one single person has asked me even to this day, why I left the church. Not even my two older kids who I'm still close to. We just do not discuss it. I 100% know that they (and others in my ward where I'd been so involved for over 20 years) are afraid to ask. I think they know me well enough to know that I didn't do this lightly, I do my research, and I make well thought out decisions in my life.

They simply DO NOT want to hear the answers. I do believe it's fear....fear that it might shake their world or their testimony and that terrifies them. As an active member of the church we all know/knew leaving is not easy, they don't want to even think about it.

I'm sorry you're going through this and I really feel for you. I remember the pain (and I still feel it at times but not as intense). It's simply just one of the most bizarre experiences that I've ever gone through and I still can't make complete sense over how members treat those who are struggling or leaving.

Add me to the list of, "not one person has said anything to me" about me dropping out of the church.

It is kind of funny, but they ask my husband what I need by way of home teaching, but completely ignore what I might need as far as visiting teachers. Both in the ward where I went inactive and the two wards we have moved into since (we are now snowbirds and my DH decided to move our records back and forth because he doesn't like "visiting" a ward for six months out of the year. and when we were active duty military sometimes we moved wards more often than twice a year.) but it is funny, because my husband told all three or four bishops I have had while inactive the exact same thing, and each of them have handled it differently, but always as if they are forbidden to talk directly to me.

But I think they approach the husband, but not the wife of an inactive husband, because as priesthood, they think the man is entitled to inspiration and so he knows MORE than his wife about what she needs, because he speaks directly to the Lord about what she needs, and she is sort of a non person who can't possibly know what she needs or wants herself, so the husband's inspiration is the best source.

Sexist as he11.

I have to admit I loved home teaching. I've done more to help people with that program than I ever have done on my own. I almost wanted to return to church just so I could get a home teaching route, but I would not be able to lie and say I still believed in God or that Jesus is the messiah. So they wouldn't give me one, and there would be no point.

I understand this must be difficult. HT being what it was for me, I can empathize with what VT must be for you. And for them to relieve you of it when you have done nothing to show you aren't capable or competent or genuinely charitable to your families is obscene, as I see it. I can't offer much in the way of useful advice, unfortunately, but I can only imagine the hurt this must be causing.