NOM

Prior my faith crisis and transition, the concept of "every knee shall bow" was always a bit troublesome to me. Of course, it was never really a problem but as I reflect back it was something was an initial weight on my shelf, albeit not too heavy.

Although the temple ceremony is explicit with the phrase "every knee shall bow" and it is an integral part of symbolism in the endowment, I know the idea extends beyond the temple. When we pray, we should kneel. There are various references to kneeling at the throne of God, etc. Even outside of the LDS context, this a universal idea within Christianity. I don't know why exactly, this concept was always just a bit unsettling to me.

After going through the temple for 10+ years after my initial endowment ceremony, I was constantly reminded about "every knee shall bow" and the concept never really left my mind. A few years ago, President Obama caught a little bit of ire when he bowed to several foreign leaders (Queen Elizabeth, King of Saudi Arabia, Emporer of Japan and others). The pundits did there thing but what stuck out in my mind was a reminder that as Americans, we bow to no one. I suppose I always knew Americans are no respecter of foreign authority, but Obama served as a good reminder that we do not even offer a salutation in such a manner.

Last Sunday, while we attended the little Christian church, one of the songs mentioned something about every knee shall bow to acknowledge Christ is King and it set off a trigger in me. My knee bends for none. (Except Mrs Misbehaved).

If God is our loving heavenly father, I can only best relate my relationship to him as I can of that of my son and I. I would never require my son to kneel before me. Americans generally reject the idea of kneeling to a magistrate. Where did this idea come from to work its way into Christianity? I suppose it would be easy enough to follow the idea of Kingship was integrated into religion, but now I find the concept disturbing.

The idea that Americans respect no foreign authority seemed to directly contradict the white garments I was wearing, especially the bottom garment. That was another reason I decided to no longer wear garments. Hearing the phrase "every knee shall bow" in that song on Sunday again reminded me that I will not play by the same rules as before.

I recognize this is just something that sticks out to me. Maybe for others, it's not a big deal. But my knee does not bend for any mortal nor deity. Every mortal is my equal and any supposed deity that requires it is not worthy of worship.

Korihor wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2017 9:06 am Where did this idea come from to work its way into Christianity?

Isaiah 45:23
Romans 14:11
Philippians 2:10

I can understand why this would bother some people. To kneel before another seems like a position of complete vulnerability and acknowledging that one's fate is entirely in their hands.

From my reading it always seemed to me that those who fell at the feet of Christ did so because of their own internal desire while becoming aware of their true relationship to Him. An unprompted display of humility, gratitude, reverence.

I wonder if those who have utterly rejected Him while truly loving a life of sin, when confronted with the same information as to their relationship with Him as the righteous or those who would have chosen a better path if they could have found it; will they not kneel in shame or out of desperation for mercy?

Regardless, I see it as a gesture motivated from within the individual rather than demanded by the Sovereign.

Palerider wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2017 10:00 am Regardless, I see it as a gesture motivated from within the individual rather than demanded by the Sovereign.

I like this interpretation of "every knee shall bow." It reflects people becoming more Christlike rather than acting as the conquered submissive. I cringe when this phrase is used arrogantly by believers that are impatiently annoyed that their personal faith is not attracting new adherents so "every knee shall bow" is a threat, not the state of a changed hear.

As a believer, I never question the statement. (Never really questioned anything, just like I was trained...)

Now, from the outside, this is pretty much my exact sentiment:

Korihor wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2017 9:06 amIf God is our loving heavenly father, I can only best relate my relationship to him as I can of that of my son and I. I would never require my son to kneel before me.

Any being that would require it's "children" to worship it is an egomaniac, and frankly doesn't deserve worship.

First of all, how or why would an ambassador of peace, kindness, love and everything good want anyone to bow down to them? Perhaps the most revered and talked about, Jesus & Buddha would have none of that nonsense.

Jesus was a Jew, lived among Jews, and yet he made it a point to include everyone and exclude no one.

Buddha, (his birthday is celebrated this time of year) was much the same.

This bowing down and worshiping business smacks of men wanting control. "Every knew shall bend". Balderdash. One of the silliest phases that anyone ever made up and called scripture.

I for one have never ever believed any of the fire and brimstone, burning in hell, torment. Why would anyone wish that on anyone or anything? Only a sadistic close-minded despot or a quisling would pass on such rubbish.

Gatorbait wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2017 3:35 pmThis bowing down and worshiping business smacks of men wanting control. "Every knew shall bend". Balderdash. One of the silliest phases that anyone ever made up and called scripture.

I for one have never ever believed any of the fire and brimstone, burning in hell, torment. Why would anyone wish that on anyone or anything? Only a sadistic close-minded despot or a quisling would pass on such rubbish.

It originates with wanting anyone nearby to be helpless to assassinate a leader. Or so some scholars say. If so it only makes the point you raise even more glaring.

I've never understood the criticism of "cherry picking" scripture. Both the bible and Koran really ought to be cherry picked, the way I see it. Unless a person really thinks dipping a bird into a dead bird's blood and sprinkling it around is a proven cure for leprosy. Kudos to you for determining for yourself what you believe the word of God to be.

Palerider wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2017 10:00 am
Regardless, I see it as a gesture motivated from within the individual rather than demanded by the Sovereign.

This. At one time, I was extremely angry with God and told him so. Somewhat aggressively. God responded back with an indescribable intensity of love, and of acceptance, even of my anger. I can kneel to that God, who knows the worst of me, loves me unquestioningly.