NOM

One of the most unsettling issues for folks going through a faith transition is when we present an issue to a fellow Latter-day Saint and they answer with “You didn’t know that?” or “I’ve always known that.” Which is used as a conversation killer; it’s kind of a spiritual “what, are you stupid or something?” In all honesty when you present someone you know/love/respect with a fact such as Joseph’s polygamy/polyandry and they say “Knew it. For a long, long time. Doesn’t everybody know that?” It’s a pretty hard slap in the chops. Not only are you questioning but you’re questioning what (for others) is already (claimed) known and absorbed. I was even presented with “How could you get through the 70s and 80s and not know that?” one time.

Because I’m extra stupid and naïve, of course.

It’s a conversation ending event that shouldn’t be. I would offer in the future try a few words:

1. “When and whom taught you that? Sunday school? Sacrament meeting? Seminary? Family Home evening?”
2. “Are you taking Posthumous sealings?” ‘Posthumous sealing’ is what my father told me when I gently asked about this circa 1980. Joseph was dead but there were all these widows and spinsters around so to ensure their entry into God’s presence….you get the drift.
3. “Is this knowledge that you share? If so, with whom, if not…why not? How do you process this?”

Put the ball back in their court. They knew. You din’t. Why isn’t this widespread common knowledge? Is this a “secret/sacred” issue? The pat answer of “I knew it, it doesn’t bother me” should be challenged—you don’t need to be a jerk—but if they hold special knowledge how’d they get it? Why don’t they share it? Granted walking up to an investigator and saying “Hi, I’m from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints…and Joseph had 33 wives” is a dead-ender but at what point in the discussion of eternal families is it appropriate? I understand milk before meat but when should the surprise be taken out of this info?

Yes. “I always knew that” can be a cop out. You didn’t just wake up with this knowledge, it came from somewhere, from someone, somehow. If they can’t give an answer—if they are stuck in the “I just always knew it” loop feel free to let them go; they want out, to get away, to not talk about it, so let them. If they remember who, what, where, when and how then respectfully listen because, friend, you’ve found an honest person and those can be very, very rare.

That is a great rejoinder. I'd like to try it.

I did learn some of these facts in seminary, and some from my mother just talking about family history. My faith crisis didn't come about predominantly because of church history. Other social and personal issues were the catalyst to me questioning the so-called standard narrative. Then history became part of the evidence for why the church was not true.

Great observation! I knew a lot of the stuff that causes shelves to crumble and fall but what did I do with it? .... I acted like it didn't bother me. Why? Because that's what Mormon's do ... at least that is how I was taught. We accept, absorb and toss it all onto our already bulging shelves. Never asking those critical thinking questions is part of the Mormon indoctrination. We are taught to pay, pray, obey and stuff. Oh if only I would have given myself permission to asked myself those questions that provoke critical thinking I just might have had a shorter stay in Mormonism.

Great post, I like the idea of asking those follow up questions and making it more about their thought process and not my faith crisis/naivety.

I have a friend I used to discuss my issues with. At first, she'd be shocked and upset about the info. Invariably she'd come to our next conversation saying, I knew that years ago, etc. I started challenging her-you didn't say that when we last discussed "x". Then I'd ask "where/when" she learned it. She would go right to emotions. She literally told me that the church could come out and say the Book of Mormon was made up and she'd still "believe it was the word of God" because Feelings.

I don't discuss anything about church with her at all anymore but I think if this comes up again, I'd like to ask-if you knew all this and it's no big deal then why for decades was it not in the curriculum and people were excommunicated for talking about it?

Great thoughts and comments. I will have to remember this for future use!

Today in Sacrament Meeting meeting we had a High Councilman say, "I was assigned to talk about the first vision"- and then gave a talk that said nothing about Joseph's handwritten 1832 account. Aren't high councilors suppose to know about this? It's in the essays. And supposing he does know about the 1832 account, shouldn't he be "inoculating" members so they will be comfortable with the new, essay-correlated information. Sheeesh.

This just reminded me of those people who say: "Didn't you know that?" and I thought of all the chances they have to teach the stuff- AND DON'T!

I was one of those people who knew the skeletons existed. I lived outside the morridor as a teenager and was an avid reader- so I found all kinds of fun stuff at the local library that was anti-mormon. Yet because I was invested spiritually in believing there is more to the story I continued to justify the skeletons and look for reasons to debunk the crazy stories about Joseph Smith. You couldn't convince me otherwise. But my shelf was huge and cracking regulary from all of the misogyny.

Eventually what brought my shelf down was a personal expereince with the members. I had to expereince the lies and manipulation of policy personally beforfe I saw that all those anti-mormon books I had read were actually true.