NOM

I was listening to the radio the other day and heard a little bit about a guy who uses open placebos. An open placebo is where you know that what you are taking is a placebo, i.e. has no active ingredients that are known to help your symptoms. Obviously this is not likely to be effective in curing cancer, but this guy went to the open placebo "doctor" to get a pill that would help him focus and be able to write for 2 hours (he is a writer). He found it to be effective. I am no expert, but I would guess that there is something to knowing what you want to happen and aligning your thoughts and expectations to do it.

This is how I feel about prayer now. I used to think that there was an active ingredient in prayer, that when I prayed to find lost video games that God was either inspiring me to know where to go or physically moving the game. But now I think it was just part of a process of getting me to expect to find it and to not stop until I did.

I no longer believe there are any active ingredients in prayer, but I find it still helps me align my thoughts and expectations.

There are experiments that show open placebos work. But they can't just be a pill somebody hands to you. You have to work for or BUY that pill. Basically you invest time or money into something and it puts your mind in the state where the placebo will work, even when you know it is just a placebo. The investment of time or money overrides common sense (and knowing it is just a placebo)and you fall for the belief that you would not be investing in this if it wasn't going to work. So, it works, because you made a heavy investment that you just would not have made if it was a placebo, therefore, not a placebo. This is why expensive diets where you eat the over priced meal they set up for you works better than getting the same food in a frozen dinner. You paid good money for it, even though it is the same frozen dinner you can get at your grocery store, so you are more motivated. But you also have an *investment* that wins over the cognitive dissonance of knowing it is just a placebo. It is like your brain goes, this is just a placebo, but I am going to work very hard, and your hard work says, NOT a placebo because no way would I be working this hard for something that is not going to work.

It uses cognitive dissonance to your advantage.

The placebo effect essentially explains how people get a testimony.

Linked wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:51 am

I no longer believe there are any active ingredients in prayer, but I find it still helps me align my thoughts and expectations.

I still pray nightly with my TBM DW. My prayers have shifted from requests for divine intervention to 'help us to' e.g. patience, awareness, love - also I don't necessarily rule out a power in the universe that I can draw on for peace and strength, I accept that prayer may very well be a gift given by that force to train us to focus and meditate so WE do the work required to achieve progress.

Linked,

Thank you for sharing! These are my thoughts exactly. I think a placebo effect is a powerful thing. Like wise I think prayer is a powerful thing but maybe not so much anymore in the way most believe that God is going to come down and find your keys or align the universe so what you want to occur happens. But I think it is all in the brain. Not to minimize prayer in the least because I think maybe that is the way it was designed? I think if God created us and we know that we only use a portion of our brain doesn't it seem logical that our brain has the power to do the things we pray for. Like you said just by focusing we can remember where those keys are so I would guess this was Gods intent. That in praying we would be able to focus ourselves enough to accomplish our desires?

I also strongly believe in the power of Group prayer. For instance in the case of someone being sick. I believe this coming together of people for a common cause has power even power to heal.

What I no longer believe is structured prayer and having to say it a particular way. As for most rules in the church, I do not believe anymore that God would require a specific way to pray or a specific way to dress or eat. I just don't believe in all those rules anymore. Galatians talks about this and has now become one of my favorite scripture books.

Last, with all that said and how much I believe in prayer, I have not prayed for months and I do not know what is holding me back. I want to pray but I am unsure of so many things that it seems futile or insincere right now? Maybe I'll find the courage soon?

Misbehaved Woman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:14 pmI have not prayed for months

Well, now we know why you're struggling with faith. You need to repent! /s

Misbehaved Woman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:14 pm Last, with all that said and how much I believe in prayer, I have not prayed for months and I do not know what is holding me back. I want to pray but I am unsure of so many things that it seems futile or insincere right now? Maybe I'll find the courage soon?

I have waffled back and forth on my thoughts on prayer. Initially I wanted to be consistent, and I didn't believe there was someone listening so I didn't pray out of principle. That was eventually replaced when I decided that prayer has been a source of strength and comfort in my life and I can consider prayer as a tool to bring me peace. Now I pray to the god I had in my head as a TBM sometimes, the one who knew me by name, or sometimes to a dear friend who died a few years ago, and it's nice. I don't feel guilty for not praying 5 times a day, nor do I feel guilty for praying without belief.

Can we start praying to other Placebo Gods now?
My list of Placebo Gods I wish would hear the words of my Mouth

KTM God
Honda God
401k God
God of Pizza
Pantheon of Beer and Wings
Min

Linked wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:51 am I was listening to the radio the other day and heard a little bit about a guy who uses open placebos. An open placebo is where you know that what you are taking is a placebo, i.e. has no active ingredients that are known to help your symptoms. Obviously this is not likely to be effective in curing cancer, but this guy went to the open placebo "doctor" to get a pill that would help him focus and be able to write for 2 hours (he is a writer). He found it to be effective. I am no expert, but I would guess that there is something to knowing what you want to happen and aligning your thoughts and expectations to do it.

This is how I feel about prayer now. I used to think that there was an active ingredient in prayer, that when I prayed to find lost video games that God was either inspiring me to know where to go or physically moving the game. But now I think it was just part of a process of getting me to expect to find it and to not stop until I did.

I no longer believe there are any active ingredients in prayer, but I find it still helps me align my thoughts and expectations.

The god of lost video games? That's why you get steam, then you don't have to worry about losing your video games in the first place

I am a big believer in the placebo effect, but can't really see how it would work, if you know before hand it's a placebo.

My MTC companion was chronically late for pretty much EVERYTHING, claimed he was just unable to get up that early due to a medical condition, so without his knowledge, I set his watch a few minutes fast. It worked great for a few days, until he discovered what I had done.

Korihor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:13 pm Can we start praying to other Placebo Gods now?
My list of Placebo Gods I wish would hear the words of my Mouth

KTM God
Honda God
401k God
God of Pizza
Pantheon of Beer and Wings
Min

Korihor, How have you not been kicked out of this group yet?

Korihor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:13 pm Min

According to the Book of Abraham, mormons have been praying to Min since they started mormon-ing.

It depends on the time period of the version of the book you're reading from whether or not Min/Elohim has his LARGE member attached or removed...

Korihor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:13 pm Can we start praying to other Placebo Gods now?
My list of Placebo Gods I wish would hear the words of my Mouth

KTM God
Honda God

I want to pray to the KTM God that either seat height be lowered, or my legs grow longer. My Suzuki and BMW Gods both helped out. KTM would be choice #1...if I could touch the ground. KTM God hasn't heard the words of my mouth. Maybe it's because I have to be veiled.

Kris Holm God
Trek God
Middle school God (I'm convinced THIS "god" is actually Lucifer)

wtfluff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:31 pm

Korihor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:13 pm Min

According to the Book of Abraham, mormons have been praying to Min since they started mormon-ing.

It depends on the time period of the version of the book you're reading from whether or not Min/Elohim has his LARGE member attached or removed...

When did they stop praying to Min is what I want to know. The church has gone astray.

Korihor, How have you not been kicked out of this group yet?

Because I pray to the Gods of this board, and they hear the words of my mouth and we have our own special handshakes.

Misbehaved Woman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:22 pm

Korihor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:13 pm Can we start praying to other Placebo Gods now?
My list of Placebo Gods I wish would hear the words of my Mouth

KTM God
Honda God
401k God
God of Pizza
Pantheon of Beer and Wings
Min

Korihor, How have you not been kicked out of this group yet?

We just laugh. And we need to witness Kori's life experiences like one big proxy experiment to model off of.