NOM

This quote has been given to one of my children:

"Satan has a powerful tool to use against good people. It is distraction. He would have good people fill life with 'good things' so there is no room for the essential ones" - Richard G Scott

I am already trying to extract myself from years of feeling profoundly guilty about never doing enough, never being enough. How can I fight against this ridiculous idea that good people doing good things are somehow under the influence of evil without outing myself? (still flying under the radar)

My personal view is that I have come to strongly doubt his existence and I certainly don't believe that we are constantly under siege from evil forces as some would have us believe. Obviously this would not be a popular view in Sunday School or with the youth leaders.

The other problem that I have with this quote is that it is extremely vague. What are good things? What are essential things? I presume we are supposed to think that essentials are praying, reading scriptures, FHE, VT, going to meetings, missionary work etc. What good things am I supposed to give up to do this? Community service? Spending time with friends and family? Reading non-church books?

LostGirl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:26 pm"Satan has a powerful tool to use against good people. It is distraction. He would have good people fill life with 'good things' so there is no room for the essential ones" - Richard G Scott

Ugh! What a horrible statement, considering what it's really saying. We certainly don't want to selfishly enrich our lives with good things when we could be spending our days reciting masonic oaths and trading away the childhoods of our grandchildren for volunteer office slavery.

That is exactly the kind of quote that would send my wife into a frenzy of righteousness. I have better boundaries now, but there was a time when she would start preaching to me and the kids about the things we did, like laugh at the dinner table or slouch during FHE. She once tried to call me to repentance for going on a walk with my daughter on Sunday, but I firmly asserted that it was fine.

I would often get told that "The Adversary" was trying to destroy our family. I finally asked my wife to stop the Satan-talk. She hasn't brought it up in a while, but I think she wants to let me have it.

Years ago, I was assigned to home teach an inactive couple. I was scandalized when they told me that they thought the devil was an outdated concept. I thought of the flaxen cords and being carefully led to hell and so on. I wish I had talked more with them. It would have saved me some years of pain.

Here's what I would do, but take it or leave it.

Have your child write down on note cards ways that your child spends their time (video games, school, friends, family time, TV shows, soccer practice, church, etc.)

Then have your child order the items from best ways to spend their time to not as good. I would really try to limit it to one card for church stuff. If they write out pray, scripture study, seminary, etc. Then you get into weird territory that the quote wants you to be in where church is the only good enough activity. So I would try to show your child they do lots of good things, but some should be a priority over others. Try not to label any as "bad" that was it stays in line with the quote. Homework is good, but if you do homework all day your family and friends would be sad you never spend time with them.

I would also share this scripture and just a shout out to my footloose fans: (BUT THERE IS A TIME TO DANCE!!)

Ecclesiastes

1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

blazerb wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:26 pm That is exactly the kind of quote that would send my wife into a frenzy of righteousness. I have better boundaries now, but there was a time when she would start preaching to me and the kids about the things we did, like laugh at the dinner table or slouch during FHE. She once tried to call me to repentance for going on a walk with my daughter on Sunday, but I firmly asserted that it was fine.

Wow. This is so far from my own experience. I guess I know people who I imagine might be this way, but it amazes me when I hear people talk about this.

Satan has been an abstract concept for me for about twenty years or so. Somehow I transitioned from a kid who believed he was an actual being who was hurting people to believing it was more a word/phrase for the bad things people do (I don't know, it was really abstract and I never thought about it). It just didn't make sense to me that there was a big bad bogey man who was making people do bad, particularly when he could really mess up god's plan by making people do good, oh wait, that was his plan, but Jesus gave me agency, but the church wants us to obey arbitrary rules (commandments) so we know we'll get to heaven, but wait, that's Satan's plan...yeah, so somewhere as a teenager Satan became abstract.

A couple months ago when there was a post on Satan in the Doctrinal forum, it peaked my interest and for the first time I really started listening to people at church and I was amazed at how often Satan is used to blame for everything bad or that makes people uncomfortable or to motivate with fear. Satan is to blame for the common core, a bad neighborhood, for television shows, and car accidents. There is nothing he can't be blamed for. So this time he's to blame for distractions...sounds to me like the church is one big distraction from the important things like focusing on the family, community, one's relationship with god...My takeaway is that members of the church refuse to take responsibility for their choices, both good and bad. They give the holy ghost credit for everything done right, and Satan for everything bad. I like Trophywife's idea - decide for one's self where one's priorities lie.

MerrieMiss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:26 pm

blazerb wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:26 pm That is exactly the kind of quote that would send my wife into a frenzy of righteousness. I have better boundaries now, but there was a time when she would start preaching to me and the kids about the things we did, like laugh at the dinner table or slouch during FHE. She once tried to call me to repentance for going on a walk with my daughter on Sunday, but I firmly asserted that it was fine.

Wow. This is so far from my own experience. I guess I know people who I imagine might be this way, but it amazes me when I hear people talk about this.

Satan has been an abstract concept for me for about twenty years or so. Somehow I transitioned from a kid who believed he was an actual being who was hurting people to believing it was more a word/phrase for the bad things people do (I don't know, it was really abstract and I never thought about it). It just didn't make sense to me that there was a big bad bogey man who was making people do bad, particularly when he could really mess up god's plan by making people do good, oh wait, that was his plan, but Jesus gave me agency, but the church wants us to obey arbitrary rules (commandments) so we know we'll get to heaven, but wait, that's Satan's plan...yeah, so somewhere as a teenager Satan became abstract.

A couple months ago when there was a post on Satan in the Doctrinal forum, it peaked my interest and for the first time I really started listening to people at church and I was amazed at how often Satan is used to blame for everything bad or that makes people uncomfortable or to motivate with fear. Satan is to blame for the common core, a bad neighborhood, for television shows, and car accidents. There is nothing he can't be blamed for. So this time he's to blame for distractions...sounds to me like the church is one big distraction from the important things like focusing on the family, community, one's relationship with god...My takeaway is that members of the church refuse to take responsibility for their choices, both good and bad. They give the holy ghost credit for everything done right, and Satan for everything bad. I like Trophywife's idea - decide for one's self where one's priorities lie.

Awesome! I've been thinking this same way. Once we realize that Satan is not putting thoughts and temptations into our head, but that we are actually complex beings with dichotomous motives and morals, we can start to take responsibility for ourselves and realize what thought processes we have that need to change. Not, "oh no, Satan is tempting me again I need to read my scriptures more and get rid of so many distractions"Certain scriptures can be great teaching tools but they will not magically rid you of your anger issues, or selfishness, laziness etc. only a consistent thoughtful practice for change can accomplish that.

blazerb wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:26 pm That is exactly the kind of quote that would send my wife into a frenzy of righteousness. I have better boundaries now, but there was a time when she would start preaching to me and the kids about the things we did, like laugh at the dinner table or slouch during FHE. She once tried to call me to repentance for going on a walk with my daughter on Sunday, but I firmly asserted that it was fine.

My fhe experience as well. A mistimed snide remark by me and the sanctity and reverence of fhe was shot to hell, sending my uber tbm wife into a rage. It didn't help that at the time she battled OCD and anger management issues. My god what a toxic mix that was! (religion and mental health. But that's a long story)

My dad and step mom are evangelicals, so boy-howdy am I used to Satan being responsible for everything they didn't like. It was like living in a Chick tract whenever I'd visit them. Everything from certain cereal commercial jingles to the theory of evolution was the product of (an apparently very busy) Satan. I eventually think I hit a critical point with it and stopped caring because nothing wasn't his doing, so why try to avoid it? It was pointless to make the attempt, it seemed.

It's a different take on the problem, but at the same time I can empathize. Satan as a form of mind control boogie man is a pretty universal religious experience.

Satan is such a loser. He tries and tries and tries to get us to do things that will slowly erode our testimonies. Things like watching tv on Sunday, changing out of our church clothes after the block, and tempting us to watch PG-13 movies. Innocent things like this then lead to missed prayers, skipped verses, and criticisms of leaders of the church. Then shopping on Sunday. Eating a few grapes in the store. Not changing the channel when that Vicky's Secret commercial interrupts Wheel of Fortune. Members who allow Satan to creep into their homes, lives, and thoughts experience increased urges to skip Sunday school, Home Teaching, and ward temple night. Skipping monthly commitments lead to 3 second gazing at the female jogger, voluptuously bouncing down the sidewalk in her morning tights. Then 4 seconds on Tuesday, 8 seconds by Wednesday, and full blown internet porn addiction by Saturday night. "Honey, do you know what time it is? Come to bed!", your eternal companion yells from across the house. "Just a few more minutes, my lesson is almost ready!" Fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap. "Honey, what are you doing? Why are you watching that yoga video on YouTube?" "Uh, uh, uh... I was learning to stretch my.... calf muscles." "At the kitchen table??"

Sunday, the guilt kicks in. Then the shame. Then the piercing eyes of the Bishop which never seeming to relinquish. "Does he know?" You wonder. Satan whispers ever so quietly while resting his chin on your left shoulder. "He does it too!" Eww, you shrug! You head to the car after sacrament meeting. Drive to sonic. Order the double banana split with extra chocolate syrup and the largest Dr. Pepper to self medicate and push the guilt out of your mind. Satan again whispers in your ear, "that's right...eat your sorrows...sip that soda. Calm your mind with caffeine and sugar."

Monday night, the FHE lesson falls short of your grandiose missionary teaching expertise. Your family didn't feel the spirit. Your wife looks at you in a quiet hushed disappointment that you've seen only once before on your wedding night when you didn't know how to please her. Your mind wanders back to that day nearly ten years ago. It wasn't your fault. After all, it was a long day at the temple taking pictures with family members you've only met twice, followed by standing for 2 hours on the hardwood floors during the wedding reception in the cultural hall. Your feet hurt. You were anxiously excited. You've never had sex before. First pleasantly surprised at the pleasure of first entry, then frozen by fear induced by years of chastity indoctrination. "What's wrong?", your new bride whispers. You soak. Provo style. Too late, renditions of come come ye saints echo in your mind. She cries silently. Disappointed and silently let down.

Satan is such a loser. He's in your head. Whispering doubts. Fear. Shame. Guilt. More doubts. Then temptations to turn to the Internet. He knows your preparing another lesson for the 5th Sunday combined meeting. He trolls your thoughts. You're not good enough. You're not smart enough. You're not ready, prepared, or worthy! Your unworthiness creeps in, deeply seating itself into your frontal lobe. Dismayed at your new mental anguish you turn to cope by falling to your knees in prayer. Peace, comfort, and serenity replace your previous thoughts and suddenly you find concentration to finish your lesson. You google Joseph Smith and double click on a brief mention of Fanny Alger. Who is that? Double click. Read. Double click. Read. Double click. Your head is spinning out of control. You're reading about kinderhook plates, The Late War, and Egyptology. Carefully worded denials and obfuscations make you nauseated, dizzy, and weak. You decide Satan has embraced you with his counterfeit hugs and you shut out of the FAIR website.

Weeks go by, then months. Your scriptures remain on the shelf. You work late on Monday nights. The wife says her own prayers while you sit on the bathroom toilet and tap out the web address to www.newordermormon.net on your iPhone. You've lost your testimony. You're emotionally on life support squandering to piece back your beliefs. Joseph, Brigham, Gordon, and Monson seem so foreign now. Jesus too. Did he really exist. Does Satan? Then the pivotal moment when everything comes together in a moments eye. You realize Satan doesn't exist and that every good story has a protagonist and an antagonist. It all makes sense now. Balance has been restored to the unbalanced world. "Honey, you alright in there?", your wife yells.

"Yes dear! Your meatloaf didn't sit well and I'm out of toilet paper!!" Life has never been better.

^^RR wins the thread!

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:47 pm You realize Satan doesn't exist and that every good story has a protagonist and an antagonist.

Elder Lawrence "the War Goes On" article in April's Ensign was matched in tone by Primary President Joy Jones's talk in general conf which included the statement "...an overwhelming motivation for us to step up and wage a war against sin in our effort to bring our children unto Christ."

We are all enlisted till the conflict is over...Onward Christian Soldiers

So we are still beating the war drum.


Why? Because we need an enemy, so we seek safety in numbers (stay in our congregations) and our self-identity is brave and righteous.


I recently listened to the Mormon ExpressionPodcast Orwell and Mormonism. The podcast made the point, very eloquently, that as in 1984 Oceania always needs to be at war, so the people of Oceania get behind the state and do as they are told; mormonism needs an enemy to be at war with: The World and the Adversary.

Actually, I think Elder Scott is absolutely right. Some Church-related activities are "good things" (and some aren't), but none of them are essential. My take on this quote is that Church-related activities are distractions from the "essential" things like time with family, enjoying nature, and avoiding mind-numbing soul-killing meetings.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:24 am Actually, I think Elder Scott is absolutely right. Some Church-related activities are "good things" (and some aren't), but none of them are essential. My take on this quote is that Church-related activities are distractions from the "essential" things like time with family, enjoying nature, and avoiding mind-numbing soul-killing meetings.

NBI is the real winner here. This is the best perspective and one I will implement into my vocabulary. 99.1% of all church things are not essential to our salvation.

From a Christian perspective accepting Jesus Christ and Baptism are the only two I can think of. The food storage, handshakes, and costumes are still debatable. Actually, no they are not.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:24 am Actually, I think Elder Scott is absolutely right. Some Church-related activities are "good things" (and some aren't), but none of them are essential. My take on this quote is that Church-related activities are distractions from the "essential" things like time with family, enjoying nature, and avoiding mind-numbing soul-killing meetings.

I love this. I can't use it my situation, but I love it.

This thread was all so good. Thanks all!

If Satan really wanted to mess over God's plan he would simply stop tempting people to do bad things.

So Satan is a total dumb a$$, or not real.

Im going with satan is totally made up person, by dumb a$$ people who like to talk about an imaginary entities tools.