NOM

Well. It's been three months since I joined this forum. I haven't been to church. My bishop has kept my apostasy confidential even though I asked him to let people know where I stand. In spite of this, it was leaked and now I'm hearing on the street that I've left the church. I'm lonely. I miss my tribe. So.

I have prepared a statement that I want to post on my personal Facebook page. My wife really doesn't want me to do this but I feel I have no choice as I'm now getting distorted feedback about my leaving.

Warning: What I'm going to post here is watered down. I'm seeking to maintain some connection to friends and family but also let them know where I stand. It requires some degree of dishonesty and hiding my true thoughts. It's a very weird kind of limbo to navigate. I expect that my identity will also be exposed on this forum which means that there will be family members that will be able to see things I've written here. I personally know someone who has been posting on this site so ask forgiveness for not revealing myself earlier should he (you) discover my true identity (What the frik? I sound like Batman) I've written some pretty regrettable posts and wonder about the ethics if I should delete some of the more offensive things I've said in the genesis of my anger when I first bumped my head on the shelf and it all came crashing down. Asking for just a bit of feed back if you don't mind.

Here's what I am thinking of posting to my TBM family/friends:

"Today I’m going to do something I’ve avoided doing but need to. There are questions about my status in the church so for those of you who care, are concerned about my eternal salvation, or are just straight up curious, I’ve got a few things I want to say before the rumor mill runs off and tells it’s own story about me. Of course it is with great anxiety and fear that I publicly state where I stand. Over reaching this fear, is the need to expose my real story and a bit of personal perspective on what is important to me. I also think it is only fair to those who will naturally feel betrayed that I worked so very close with in a variety of service and leadership positions, for those who sought out advice or just a listening ear, received callings, and even blessings from me. I am so deeply sorry if this public statement catches you off guard, or even if it hasn’t, I’m sorry for what may very well feel like to you is a severing of a life-time connection. I don’t believe it needs to be, is, or would be a very Christ-like thing to do. This decision did not come without a deep exploration of the consequences of what will feel like to many of you as a personal rejection. I simply can no longer maintain the pretense that I believe has clouded my authenticity for many years. It has been a long time coming keeping my doubts, concerns, and understanding to myself and so it shall remain with the exception of what I expose here.

I have decided to step back from fully following the prescribed formula for a variety of reasons. I state very clearly - even with a sense of urgency that should you read this post, you understand one single ambition: I am not in anyway trying to influence anyone to fall in line with what I think. I am ultra-aware of how my thinking and beliefs evolve over time and never see it as a static representation of absolute truth. Having said that, I hope I can convey with some precision where I stand for I owe it to my friends and family (most who already know) to do so.

The feedback on the street that is finding it’s way back to me is that I have left the church. This is a sweeping statement that has no validity. I want to say straight up that I didn’t ‘leave’ the church. I believe membership is far more complex than that. I have given my life to the church and it’s still a very big part of who I am. It’s true I currently am not attending but I have never declared that I have left the church nor is it my ambition to do so. I have not asked for my membership to be revoked, have not been excommunicated, or become an anti-mormon activist, and I have no interest in any other religion (or starting one!). It’s true my ideas about certain aspects of church history and the current direction the church is heading with it’s correlated curriculum would be considered by many to be controversial and unorthodox. I think that anyone would be hard-pressed to find that what I think isn’t supported by archival and curriculum material available through lds.org.

To frame it differently, nobody knows my journey, or how or why I chose to step back and likely never fully will. It is not my intention to persuade, challenge, or offend anyone for what they hold sacred. I respect that in others and hope that the same is respected of me. I also want to say up front that nobody has offended me. Also, removing myself physically from the church is not an issue related to worthiness - I have no interest in exploring ‘worldly’ temptations. I live the standards of the church related to morality and health. I still have a hope for the eternities and still place emphasis on the value of family connections both past and present – all of which have shaped my world and eternal views. These are the beautiful parts of the gospel that have molded my learning and blessed my family and I expect will always be very important to me. I am who I am, given years of dedicated service to family, the community, countless students, and church members hoping it is all enough. This is not an announcement that I’m about to kick the bucket. But my life has turned an unexpected corner and I feel I need to let others know what that means. That’s all. I have no hidden or secret agenda’s. I’m just trying to sort out where I stand so I can live out the last few decades of my life more authentically.

Please do not be afraid to approach me. You can’t offend me no matter what you have to say to me. As uncomfortable as it is for me right now when those of you choose to share your deep feelings through testimony or invite me back to church, I am humbled and grateful for your willingness to reach out to me and see it as a show of solidarity in a love and support that transcends the church, world views, or belief. I do hope that if you feel betrayed by me given whatever measure (if any) influence I may have had in your life, please be honest. If you are mad at me, yell at me if that’s how you feel you need to communicate. I’ve got broad shoulders. If you feel disappointed in me, I can and want to work through it. If you are afraid of me, don’t be. It is my intention that however or whatever is said to me however it is said will help us both navigate these challenging waters arriving at some distant shore with our relationship the better for it.

If you have doubts yourself, we can have candid conversations about that but be careful. I am committed to helping others by listening to your stories and if needful, pointing you toward what I think are helpful resources both in and out of the correlated narrative of the church. More likely, I will try to convince you to hold on to what you’ve valued all your life. I’m at peace with my own personal decisions and and am actually very happy, excited about what the future holds, and eager to put what feels like a very weird kind of limbo behind me – it’s the limbo that is difficult and I can’t wait to step beyond it.

One last point is that regardless of doubts on doctrine, historical events, or the current challenges with the church as a corporation, change doesn’t need to be an all or none, black or white, in or out road forward. Right now and for me, it is. That, in itself, may change.

Thank you all for your friendship, the countless memories, and continued association I hope and expect to have with you all. In so many ways, I’m still the same guy I used to be. In fact what I used to be had a pretence component so if you saw some good in me then, I think you will find a genuine quality and honesty that I hope is more aligned to an authenticity that better represents who I am and always wanted to be."

Well I though I was the only real super hero on here.

Anyway, if you're looking for feedback.

Too long. Bullet point the main points. Those who love you and will support you will do so regardless. The rest will find fault with you regardless. You don't owe anyone an in depth explanation, probably just more of an opportunity for your words to be twisted and misrepresented.

How about:

I'm not currently attending. It is a conscious decision, it is my own decision, but I continue to hold my membership dear. I love you all unconditionally, I hope that sentiment is reciprocated.

The only reason to write something more in depth is catharsis - in which case scribble/type away. Other wise 3-5 key points, concisely made might aid you better.

But I am merely a randomer on the internet - one that will ask for advice in due course too So I confess i am but an empty vessel keyboard warrior. Adieu

Well, the message is eloquently stated, but what is your goal? If you want to have the same friendships with ward members you had before, if you are seeking to have the same relationships you had previously, sorry, that ship has sailed. Most Mormons haven't the faintest idea how to deal with the smallest whiff of unorthodoxy. Nothing in your post will restore you to being an orthodox, believing Mormon, and thus if your goal is to believe as you do now but enjoy the same associations you had before, sorry, I doubt it can be done. Most of your ward will just find your Facebook post confusing and go on treating you different.

Personally I think the best approach is to find new people to hang out with who don't treat you different just because you stop believing the ridiculous mythology propagated by an oppressive religious organization. Why do you care what ward members think about your relationship to the Church? Clearly they aren't your true friends, or they wouldn't make you feel like you have to make a proclamation like this. I say don't bother with anyone who treats you differently just because you stopped believing in the Church - they aren't worth your time or worry.

Just my $.02.

I agree with both comments above: could be shorter and pipe dream to hope for normal relations with any TBMs. However, I also think you can post it as is. The key for me is that you avoided getting into any particular item on the shelf. Being verbose on your feelings about the church and your hope for how relationships should be are good reminders to TBMs to perhaps sting their conscious about walking a path of Christ and not judging; but they likely will anyway.

Over a couple of weeks I spent a lot of time typing out my feelings in a long multi-page email to my SP and BR when I finally gave them the proverbial finger. It was cathartic and a good process to go through. After further review and advice from NOM friends, it was paired down to a few paragraphs and it got the job done with little to no fallout.

I think the hope for a bridge is a difficult one. After we formally left the church, there were a couple of more realistic TBM friends that still do their best to make it normal and not weird when we interact; they are truly good people. The rest of them see us as toxic and avoid all contact, which is fine. I totally understand how they feel, looking back to when I was a TBM and had friends leave the church; it's impossible for them to see anything of your point of view as long as they drink the COB koolaid and look at the world through the correlated glasses.

Good luck with your post! I think You'll find it liberating. But, I also think you are trying to find middle ground, which is okay but for most, does not last. This will be a good first step toward total liberation.

Great job putting your feelings down.
It's a tad long. They'll read you haven't been attending, realize how long it is and stop reading and just assume you're a crazy apostate.

Those that will remain friends will remain friends regardless.
That that won't, won't.

Be yourself and let the chips fall how they well. No amount explanation will convince some who's already made up their mind.

I agree with the comments above.

Personally I've taken the less is more approach and like to be the enigma nobody can figure out. Deep down I would like people to understand me but once I realized nobody IN the church understands me then I quit trying to be understood.

Once indifference begins to set in that's when you make progress towards living again.

Here's a great book recommendation that really changed how I started to look at things.



Another mind hack philosophy is Stoicism. Google it.

Thanks all. I knew I could garner some perspective from this awesome group. I do feel pretty isolated living in a small mormon town so really have no friends/associates outside of church - likely why I'm trying to hang on even though I can't stomach the thoughts of ever stepping foot into the church again. If authenticity is my ambition, then I need to not give a f**k. Red Ryder - I do hope that books real. I'm getting it. Stoicism is also something I need to employ as I have a tendency to vomit way to much on those who also don't give a f**k (i.e. most of the TBMS in our stake).

Really. Thanks for your thoughts on this. I think I'll bullet point parts of it as suggested and I think reality is setting in that I've got to find some new and genuine friends. As much as I'd like to do the same with family, I love 'em too much so I'll have to figure a way through this with them.

It's an actual book. You can find it on Audible and listen to it too. Obviously the author drops the F bomb a lot so be warned if sensitive ears are around.

If in a small mormon town, my advice is to be the fun loving guy everyone wants to be around who doesn't wear religion on your sleeve. If that's 180 degrees opposite of your normal personality then you know where to begin working!

Repost your edits and we can continue to give feedback.

So...

I think it's good that you got your feelings down. I think you're being too apologetic. You don't have to apologize for where you are. I get that you're concerned about your relationships with other members of the ward/stake. And it seems that in the Mormon Church we have this feeling that everything we think and/or do is everybody else's business, especially our bishop's.

Guess what... ♫Da, da duh!♫

"It's not their business."

(maybe this post is more about me than you)

I have written similar letters in my mind dozens of times. Sometimes it feels cathartic to write them even if you never share them

Less is more. I agree about doing things your way, not feeling guilty, not giving a F**k, and just leaving it be. Rumors will happen. Relationships will change. TBM's will never understand.

Let us know what and if you share, how they react.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:50 pm Here's a great book recommendation that really changed how I started to look at things.

Just read the first chapter and I like the guy's way of thinking! He's trying awfully hard to be edgy when his first chapter is based on the idea of "don't try," but hopefully he'll tone that down as we move on.

However you ultimately deal with your letter with the real people in your life I just want to say thank you for expressing your thoughts.

Most of what you wrote has gone through my mind too and I wish I had written it down a couple of years ago to clarify my thinking.

That being said, I agree with others here that despite the eloquent post you will still find the world of TBMs looking at you differently.

I just started listening to the Subtle Art of Not Giving a F##k. Good stuff!

I'm along the lines of not giving a sh$t and wouldn't post anything.
An alternate posting would be to post something like "I just donated $300 to the Liahona Childrens Fund. This is fantastic humanitarian organization run by members of the church. The donations go to help feed the starving children in Guatemala whose parents pay all their money in tithing to the LDS church and are left at the brink of starvation."

So many good thoughts already but I'll throw my 2 cents in anyway.

I think these long letters we write are cathartic and have value-for us. My dad says, write it ALL down. Feel all of it. Then crumple it up and throw it away.

You don't owe anyone an explanation for anything. Keep being you and the true friends will remain.

2bizE wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:10 pm An alternate posting would be to post something like "I just donated $300 to the Liahona Childrens Fund. This is fantastic humanitarian organization run by members of the church. The donations go to help feed the starving children in Guatemala whose parents pay all their money in tithing to the LDS church and are left at the brink of starvation."

YESSSSSSSSS!!!! I straight up love this and wish I had the bollocks to pull it off.

Anon70 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:06 am So many good thoughts already but I'll throw my 2 cents in anyway.

I think these long letters we write are cathartic and have value-for us. My dad says, write it ALL down. Feel all of it. Then crumple it up and throw it away.

I totally get this and have written gobs of stuff for that very reason. I'll probably still post something. Not to try and win back friends and influence TBMs, but to avoid things like what happened last Sunday. A very TBM TBM knocked on my door. I politely asked him in. He sat on the couch staring at the very large elephant in the room but failed to acknowledge it. Went something like this:

TBM: "er . . . how are ya doin'?"

ME: "Sorry. I couldn't hear you. You know. With all the noise the you-know-what is making crashing around the room."

"Huh?"

"No. Seriously. Look at it. It's an elephant. You must be able to see it. So. What do you see?"

"Well . . . it's black and white."

"No. That's my zebra. Pay it no never mind. Look at the elephant. It's grey. Do you understand that all things are not black and white?"

"I can only see the zebra."

"No wonder you can't see the elephant. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. I'm quite comfortable with the elephant in the room. It's grey which adds nuance to the subtle earth tones of the living room. It fit's well in our house."

"Well it sure would look stupid in the church. Only the zebra would fit in. Cuz he's black and white. Like the rest of us."

"Yeah. I know. You're wearing your zebra camo - black suit, white shirt, black tie, white undies, black shoes . . . white sox? Seriously?"

"I just want you to know that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt the zebra is true. Why don't you come back out to church next Sunday?"

"Great! I'll bring my elephant. His name is Francis and he's gay."

"Um . . . . uh . . . (inappropriate gulp) Probably not a good idea. He might say something that would drive away the spirit."

"Yeah. Best just to keep him home. You never know what might come out of his mouth if he shows up at church where nobody can see him."

This is a true story except I changed all the words in the dialog to make it not true (but meaningful). I'll briefly unpack it a bit. The elephant in the room is me (but I'm not gay). I think the gay reference draws attention to the fact that my thinking is no longer black and white like the TBM who did bear his testimony and did invite me back to church. I think the rest of the dialog sort of makes sense, but doesn't matter if it doesn't because in and of itself was another useful and very cathartic exploration.

Thanks for your great comments. I might be wrong in posting on FB, but want people to know I'm still approachable. I've only had two people contact me from the church since I left formerly three months ago. I don't expect that to change after I post. What I do hope changes is that I will feel like I can approach them without the awkwardness that I felt on Sunday. I want to be in the drivers seat and publicly stating without getting into too much detail where I stand I think will relax my anxiety so it's not blowing the mercury out of the top of the Richter scale thermometer. I'm not sure why that's still important to me. I suppose it's partly because I feel a lot of pity for these very good folks I've lived with for sixty plus years that have had the zebra skin pulled over their eyes. I see them every day as neighbours, friends, and family. I don't mind losing church contact but don't want to lose that 'howdy neighbour' connection even though as many of you are saying, it's probably the inevitable outcome. I've got to give it a shot.

achilles wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:49 pm So...

I think it's good that you got your feelings down. I think you're being too apologetic. You don't have to apologize for where you are. I get that you're concerned about your relationships with other members of the ward/stake.

This is an important statement. I'll be cutting that out. It almost sounds like an admission of guilt which I clearly DON'T want!!! Thanks for drawing attention to that.

RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:26 pm I agree with both comments above: could be shorter and pipe dream to hope for normal relations with any TBMs. However, I also think you can post it as is. The key for me is that you avoided getting into any particular item on the shelf. Being verbose on your feelings about the church and your hope for how relationships should be are good reminders to TBMs to perhaps sting their conscious about walking a path of Christ and not judging; but they likely will anyway.

it was paired down to a few paragraphs and it got the job done with little to no fallout.

You nailed something here that is especially important that I plan to give some emphasis in my paired down paragraphs (another good bit of advice shared by pretty much all who posted). I really have a tendency to roll things out in long, hard to process essays so will be tightening it up. The key here and for me, is to convey the message that alienating me feels like a judgemental thing to do. I think they know it. I did when I was them. I needed constant reminding how un-Chist like that is.

I think the hope for a bridge is a difficult one. After we formally left the church, there were a couple of more realistic TBM friends that still do their best to make it normal and not weird when we interact; they are truly good people. The rest of them see us as toxic and avoid all contact, which is fine. I totally understand how they feel, looking back to when I was a TBM and had friends leave the church; it's impossible for them to see anything of your point of view as long as they drink the COB koolaid and look at the world through the correlated glasses.

I have a few TBM's that are as you describe. Something very cool. A very good TBM friend approached me yesterday. He was suffering a tragic family event he needed someone he trusted to explore with. As he our ten minutes turned in to two hours, I began feeling shameful for not patronizing I mean comforting him with all the church correlated mantra's ('So sorry to hear that - we'll be fasting and praying for you' 'have you given him a blessing' 'have you contacted the bishop' 'which commandments have you violated lately' yadayadayada). I was sure he was picking up on my lack of spiritual insights, so I asked him straight up if he heard anything about me leaving the church. He said, 'Yup. I knew that a long time ago and heard it recently on the street.' This made me sit up straight. He followed with,'What do you think I came here looking for? Let me tell you how much you leaving the church means to our relationship." He then followed with, "Double zero's!!!" (while looking at me through zero's he made with his thumbs and index fingers). I don't recall having that kind of conversation with anyone - ever - in the church. It was raw, deeply moving, and we parted closer friends than I could have ever imagined. I have no expectations there are others out there like him and I very much thank you for reminding me that many are called but very few are chosen. I'll reach out to a few of the chosen and let the rest flock off together into the sunset. Thanks again.