NOM

Last night we had a BBQ with DW's elder brother.
Inactive for years with his Nevermo wife.
And we talked Church, as we inevitably do.
Dehlin, podcast, closing of wards and our own activity.
What do WE feel, each individually, a talk we never really had as a family.
Sometimes you need a third party to break open things.

So DD starts quoting George Carlin verbatim, and I saw a seed planted abt a year ago had sprouted, yea it was a good seed. God is almighty, allknowing, allwise, just can't handle money... He has a special place of pain and torture for you to burn till the end of time, but He loves you.
What kind of a God is that she asked?? That's not a God, but somehow we believe in Him??

Son said: a Church based on a pedophile is not a Church of God.
And He stated He would not serve a mission

DW kept quiet, except saying that the closures opened her eyes that it's now a Church of Mammon and not of Mormon.

So now all That's left is the conclusion it's a social thing for my DW, Ds and DD.
And for me, I see value, but I see the Same in the Catholic Church.
Actually the latter has more cultural value in our Society in Europe.

So there you have it.
The last remaining questions are.
Will we go quietly of with a bang?
When Will we go?
Where Will you go, that one has been answered.
DD Will start college in a few months, plenty of new friends to make and a world to discover.
DS Will turn 18 and asked on the ride back home if He could pick-up baseball again and if I could drive him to his matches on sunday.

So mentally we are now mostly out, cultural
Mormons. Cultish mormons no more.

It sounds like the disaffection is growing at a fast pace. You probably do not have generations of family as members to deal with. You, Mel, are in a good spot. You and your family can see the green grass on the other side of Mormonism. I envy you.

Amazing how breathing becomes easier when you're not alone and honesty flourishes.

this saddens me. not because you are not justified. But because the church is so narrow, it is on a path of self harm and eventual suicide (irrelevance).

For me the church was about living up to your/my potential. Now it seems to not be able to live up to its own potential. I'm moaning, I know.

About a year ago I was feeling very alone and depressed and visited with a counselor (who turned out to be LDS, but still very helpful and validating). She told me that it is understandable that I would be feeling depressed if I could not be authentic with my family and friends. The LDS culture I experienced was such that at you can believe whatever you want as long as you don't discuss it or act like you believe differently. As long as that culture persists isolation and depression will be pervasive. Glad to hear that those walls are coming down in your home and family.

BTW, I never commented on your MS podcast. You did great and are very courageous. Oh, and I'm all for multiculturalism and all, but where your freaking bike helmet!

Bikehelmets have become mandatory for E-bikes with max speed of 30MPH+