NOM

Like Kori, Mrs. Linked and I were blessed with ward conference today. I wasn't ready to vote opposed, but I did barely flit my hand up for the general authorities, and all positions that weren't people in my ward. It was also a little creepy when they had all the people that were visiting with Stake callings stand up. With my current world view it looked more like big brother watching than a loving shepherd. Oh, and they used middle initials for every person that was sustained. It was just too much. Neighbor T. McNeighbor. Weird. This church is weird.

Last week we had a regional conference with Russ and Wendy Nelson visiting for the Saturday evening session. Mrs. Linked and I went and the place was pretty packed, as far as I could tell. The building I was at was on satellite feed and it was quite full. Wendy talked about how going to the temple less than once a week made her feel guilty and I don't recall what Russ said. Apparently my Stake President didn't think it was packed enough. In his talk today in Ward Conference he told us there were 2 legitimate excuses for missing the broadcast: Being too sick to come, and having little kids that you couldn't find child care for. Any other reason for missing is not legitimate (and thus you should feel guilty and repent for being a bad person; oh and if you did miss for your kids you must not have tried hard enough to find child care). That got me fired up and I said in a loud whisper to my wife, "He doesn't get to decide what a legitimate reason for going is for everyone, that's ridiculous."

It only got worse from there. Mr. Stake President went on to continually say that missing that broadcast sounds a lot like rejecting the apostles and prophets. Considering General Conference as a week off sounds a lot like rejecting the apostles and prophets. He basically called all the people who don't worship the brethren apostates. And we all know what being an apostate means, no eternal family, no eternity with Jesus, no planet. What a horrible guilt and scare tactic to use on people who are just trying to get through this life. Which I suppose is par for the course.

That might be how you treat a misbehaving child who has a dangerously wrong worldview. It's not how you treat adults.

And then he had the audacity to say that he wished that he could convey the overwhelming feeling he had at the regional conference that we were okay. So, you chew us out, guilt us, try to scare us, and then tell us you thought that would bring a peaceful feeling? That is messed up.

That was one of the more difficult meetings I have suffered through. Even very TBM Mrs. Linked agreed that his comments were inappropriate.

Tough love in Mormonism IS being chastised for not participating enough, right? The reality is it falls on deaf ears and alienates the members. No wonder we don't invite our friends to this circus of a church. Just when you think compassion, love, and worshipping Jesus are staples of the LDS foundation the leaders quickly put us in our place and remind us we should worship Prophets, Apostles, and church policy!

You need a new stake president.

Sins of ommission.

Haha I was on vacation. Will miss 5 straight weeks at our ward although only skipped full church once and only did SM 2 times.

I'm apostate for sure!

When I hear this story, I'm reminded that life without church meetings is such a blessing

Blessing or no, nature has never chastised me for not attending but I genuinely feel better when I do spend my Sundays in the mountains. Something I rarely felt in church, even when devoutly trying to be a disciple.

I have heard this more and more, simply because people are bagging stake/general conference, and the only recourse is to beg/coerce/manipulate and guilt people into coming. It's insane. If the product was so conducive to people's well being, shouldn't we just watch with awe as chapels are thronging with the adoring masses? This kind of language is doomed to failure, as witnessed by our last stake conference. Saturday session was pretty weakly attended (so I heard, I didn't go) and so a plea was made to fill the building for the next day. Just didn't happen. Only the hardcore are buying in.

We had the missionary lesson today, and usually the rhetoric is about how the church will fill the earth, and how it's the fastest growing religion in the world. None of that happened today. I think people are realizing that the Good Ship Zion is springing a few leaks and is rusting out, and are just essentially wishing it to stay afloat.

You know what gets me? Those sorts of guilt trips use to work! I look back now and wonder: what the heck was I thinking? So glad I'm no longer in their clutch. Wife is still TBM, so I'm technically in a half clutch.

I just really want to go somewhere happy. Where people welcome you. Where we talk about being good people and then do something about it like host a soup kitchen or homeless shelter. I don't want to keep going somewhere where nothing is good enough.

I don't understand why they even mention it to the ones who showed up for the meeting, unless it is to make them feel special for toeing the line. That, and to subliminally encourage them to give the slackers a guilt trip for not attending. Yeah, that's probably it. Lame.

Thanks for all the support. The manipulation, negativity, and leader-worship make me sick.

We had a family get together with my very TBM family (who doesn't know of my disaffection) last night and I brought up my SP's message and my thoughts of how inappropriate it was. It was funny to watch them try to walk the line of being agreeable and sustaining the leaders.

My sister said, "Yeah, but that's sometimes what we need to hear I think."

I responded with "But I was at the meeting he was chastising us for! His message was inappropriate and wrong."

Then we moved on to talking about the weekend they have planned to watch conference at their cabin.

So there were two talks preaching to those who didn't show up? What sense does that make?
They wanted the attendees to dole out social pressure or something? Or to just look down on the "less faithful"?

Random wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:05 pm So there were two talks preaching to those who didn't show up? What sense does that make?
They wanted the attendees to dole out social pressure or something? Or to just look down on the "less faithful"?

Perhaps they could build a platform and take turns climbing it to give their speeches.

Brother Linked - I wonder whether the stake center (or whatever building where Lord & Lady Nelson spoke) was more sparsely attended than where you were? If so, maybe Nelson guilted the SP, or the SP got defensive about it and decided to go on the attack. I am convinced the higher some people go in leadership, the more timid and fearful they become.

One of my shelf items was the guilt that leaders place on members in contrast to the lack of preaching to those who are not members. General conference, stake conference, ward conference, and other meetings are opportunities for telling members that they are not enough: not good enough, not hard-working enough, not in enough meetings, whatever. However, no church leader will ever be found preaching to the world. Our prophets are not going out to confound the Sam Harrises or Bill Mahers of the world. Sam Harris and Bill Maher would eat these guys for lunch. Heck, a friendly interview with Time magazine confounded Pres. Hinckley. I always wanted prophets to go out and declare the word like Elijah or Alma. Instead, they hold their meetings to figure out how to get more out of the members. Why did I let the guilt eat me up for so long? Now it makes no sense to me. I can try to mitigate the guilt on my kids, though. That's the best I can do.

Linked wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:05 pm
I responded with "But I was at the meeting he was chastising us for! His message was inappropriate and wrong."

Then we moved on to talking about the weekend they have planned to watch conference at their cabin.

Yeah, but you were thinking it, along with probably 90% of the congregation, and the HG knew this, so he inspired the SP to give this talk, so that all may benefit from his self righteousness.

Ward conference for us is really no different than a regular church day, other then you have the big wigs giving talks during sacrament meeting, instead of whomever's name alphabetically follows the speakers from the previous week, but stake conference is the real deal, it's only the one meeting, and only 2 hours long, you even get to sleep in an hour longer, or if you have the late church, get it over with before it's pitch dark outside.

We get the "now this is not an excuse to take the weekend off" every time stake conference rolls around, but it almost always come from people I know dang well used to take that weekend off before they got a leadership position, and you know darn well what people are thinking, when that sinister smile crosses their face. (booyah! Its stake conference next week!)

The church really should give weekend's off, I think it was on the old site, but I have complained on here before how church often derails vacation plans, because we have to worry about hurrying home, to get back for church on Sunday so we can teach that class, give a prayer, or home preach your neighbors. We can take vacation from work, but never ever from church! Isn't "Stake Conference" mormon for vacation?

nibbler wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:09 am

Random wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:05 pm So there were two talks preaching to those who didn't show up? What sense does that make?
They wanted the attendees to dole out social pressure or something? Or to just look down on the "less faithful"?

Perhaps they could build a platform and take turns climbing it to give their speeches.

I literally laughed out loud. Love it!

LostMormon wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:52 pm

Linked wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:05 pm
I responded with "But I was at the meeting he was chastising us for! His message was inappropriate and wrong."

Then we moved on to talking about the weekend they have planned to watch conference at their cabin.

Yeah, but you were thinking it, along with probably 90% of the congregation, and the HG knew this, so he inspired the SP to give this talk, so that all may benefit from his self righteousness.

Ward conference for us is really no different than a regular church day, other then you have the big wigs giving talks during sacrament meeting, instead of whomever's name alphabetically follows the speakers from the previous week, but stake conference is the real deal, it's only the one meeting, and only 2 hours long, you even get to sleep in an hour longer, or if you have the late church, get it over with before it's pitch dark outside.

We get the "now this is not an excuse to take the weekend off" every time stake conference rolls around, but it almost always come from people I know dang well used to take that weekend off before they got a leadership position, and you know darn well what people are thinking, when that sinister smile crosses their face. (booyah! Its stake conference next week!)

The church really should give weekend's off, I think it was on the old site, but I have complained on here before how church often derails vacation plans, because we have to worry about hurrying home, to get back for church on Sunday so we can teach that class, give a prayer, or home preach your neighbors. We can take vacation from work, but never ever from church! Isn't "Stake Conference" mormon for vacation?

Haha, this is great. As a TBM I was all in on church every Sunday. I'd go to church when I was on vacation, though I was rarely on vacation on Sunday because I needed to be at my ward. This has been one of the indulgences I've taken even with a TBM wife, and she doesn't push back too hard. Now our camping trips are always Friday AND Saturday night, and we come home whenever we feel like it on Sunday. It's great!

I agree, church sanctioned regular Sundays off would be a great mental health break. Unfortunately it doesn't fit into the narrative the LDS church is pushing. Magnify callings, hastening the work, yada yada yada.