NOM

Posted: **Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:37 am**

So my parents, with a limited understanding of English did see and experience the impact the interview with John Dehlin last week has had.
So while visiting last weekend they asked a question which has been nagging me. And one quite the opposite many of you have.

How on earth did you fall for it son, and why do you still attend when you now know it´s not all they (the Church) pretend it to be??

And I am still at a loss as to what to tell them. Leaving the Church and telling your parents must be hard, this one however......

Posted: **Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:06 pm**

Yeah it's even weirder when you have a Dad who was once in, but now out, but encourages you to stay in so your kids get "religious training". WTF Dad?

That must be really difficult to deal with the "I told you so" mentality.

Posted: **Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:08 pm**

Obviously M can speak for himself.

But how could we fall for it? An overriding desire to be part of something good, being surrounded by people who had the same desire and a lack of critical information on the belief system.

Why do we stick around? Me: children and parents - though children are also part of why I want to have some distance from the church: my oldest are not active and I have started to inoculate my youngest by casually raising changes and inconsistencies in the church. (I like the 'goodness' of the church and the social interaction for my kids, but don't need them growing up blinkered with an accompanying sense of perfectionism and guilt).

Posted: **Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:29 pm**

I never fell for anything. It might as well if been in my mother's bosom. I drank it because I knew nothing else and never had a chance to accept it. It was in my DNA and it took 36 years to realize it.
I don't beat myself up about it. If this was 1845 and you had 12 wives and you "fell for it" that would be different. You fell for something you wanted to believe in and be part of. There is no shame whatsoever in that. The fact that you can realize it, makes you a better human being....in my opinion

Posted: **Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:31 am**

It's easy to wonder why someone else "fell for" something that seems obviously incorrect, especially in the realm of religion. Someone in one tradition (which is of course the right one) can clearly see that others have got it wrong.

And, of course, someone outside of religion wonders how others can possibly accept the truth claims that they do. And someone who has left a religion wonders why others still inside don't come to the same conclusions as quickly as they'd like (or ever) when presented with what seems like totally compelling evidence.

I wonder if some of this comes from reducing every view but our own to a set of propositions to be falsified rather than a more complicated matter of identity, moral framework, and social structure.

I also suspect that anyone who questions a belief that someone else holds likely holds several others just as shaky on reflection, whether related to religion or not. I can't help but think that it's all just "choosing to believe" in the end.

Any variation of the NOM approach will always be unacceptable to many on the inside and the outside.

Posted: **Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:52 pm**

My father was dropped off by the army in Provo. The contrast between how these people lived compared to how he was raised was stark. Happy families, clean cut productive life, good morals. He fell in love with a young woman and joined the church because she had said she wouldn't marry him if he wasn't a member. He was baptized. Then, it was he wasn't a returned missionary. She kept moving the goalposts. He just wasn't good enough for her. He found my mother. She was acceptable. They were married.

They were both from a more bigoted time. They never said, but I think they both lost their testimonies after the priesthood ban revelation. It was a few months later that they were both desperately telling me the church is a great place to raise children. I've read threads in the DAMU indicating that seems to be a pretty reliable way to tell if someone no longer has a testimony. I've seen other conversions and the reason is the person being baptized was just very impressed with the Mormons. They've got a point, but it's a shallow conversion.

Posted: **Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:56 pm**

The people are better than the church.

Posted: **Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:49 pm**

deacon blues wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:56 pm The people are better than the church.

I think this is true. I know some very good people who are LDS. The basic morality was taught to them by their parents, the church and society. If you talk to them in their private moments there are aspects of the gospel they give them pause, but they always default to faith.

Posted: **Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:38 am**

Give It Time wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:49 pm
deacon blues wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:56 pm The people are better than the church.
I think this is true. I know some very good people who are LDS. The basic morality was taught to them by their parents, the church and society. If you talk to them in their private moments there are aspects of the gospel they give them pause, but they always default to faith.

I agree as well, but in some ways I hate to admit it. I don't like it because TBM apologetic types use this as a get out of jail free card. "Look how nice and neat we are. And we're so clean we don't even drink coffee, let alone drink alcohol or use tobacco. Non-Mormons are almost always impressed by Mormons they know because, well we're just so darn, oh-my-heck, great! The church is TRUE!!!"

Posted: **Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:12 pm**

I meant the LDS people are for the most part kind. They may struggle with being kind to TBGL people because of their culture. They may even have trouble seeing how they are unkind to those outside the culture, but they usually are better than the culture they have been raised in. That's one reason missionary field Mormons sometimes get turned off by Utah Mormons.

Posted: **Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:37 pm**

If I remember right, you joined as a teen? I would love to hear your conversion story. Why did you join? it sounds as though it was against your parents wishes, so you must have had some resistance in joining, what convinced you to join despite the resistance?

Posted: **Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:44 pm**

Meilingkie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:37 am And I am still at a loss as to what to tell them. Leaving the Church and telling your parents must be hard, this one however......

"It seemed like a good idea at the time, and I did meet my future wife there. Since then I am simply interested in serving God with this hilarious, flawed, and delightful group of people."

Let's be fair that I have no idea all of the social and family forces working on you right now. I have a lot of respect for you and the interview.

Posted: **Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:28 am**

Bloodhound98 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:29 pmYou fell for something you wanted to believe in and be part of. There is no shame whatsoever in that. The fact that you can realize it, makes you a better human being....in my opinion

I agree. One thing that stood out to me on the old NOM when I began my new faith stage, is that everything's illusion. We cannot help but fool ourselves. Realizing Mormonism isn't what we thought, is not the end of feeling betrayed or as if we fooled ourselves. So many cognitive distortions and counter-productive thoughts I still believe! I'm working on it, but I won't be done any time soon. I'm human - filled with subjectively limited thoughts. No shame in being human - "what imperfection hates the most is imperfection."

Posted: **Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:59 am**

Newme wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:28 am
Bloodhound98 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:29 pmYou fell for something you wanted to believe in and be part of. There is no shame whatsoever in that. The fact that you can realize it, makes you a better human being....in my opinion
I agree. One thing that stood out to me on the old NOM when I began my new faith stage, is that everything's illusion. We cannot help but fool ourselves. Realizing Mormonism isn't what we thought, is not the end of feeling betrayed or as if we fooled ourselves. So many cognitive distortions and counter-productive thoughts I still believe! I'm working on it, but I won't be done any time soon. I'm human - filled with subjectively limited thoughts. No shame in being human - "what imperfection hates the most is imperfection."

NOM

Why son, why?

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