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Voting Opposed
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:59 pm
by Korihor
Mrs Kori and I plan to vote opposed at our ward conference this Sunday to all GA's, Q12 and 1Presy. I might try to get a video recording of it.
Also, our stake conference is in 3 weeks and we plan to do the same.
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:19 pm
by No Tof
I really admire your bravery and commitment for doing this.
You may know this already, but usually when there is an obvious vote to the contrary you will be invited to meet with the presiding authority to clarify the reasons.
Sounds like you are letting you're
out. Yay!!
Wish I could be there to vote with you. WTH just consider my proxy vote cast. Nod yer noggin and say yes eh.
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:55 pm
by nibbler
No Tof wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:19 pmYou may know this already, but usually when there is an obvious vote to the contrary you will be invited to meet with the presiding authority to clarify the reasons.
If you don't feel comfortable or just don't want to get into it:
Ask if there was something that you could say that would make a difference in the proceedings. If not, why do you want to know my reasons?
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:12 pm
by Red Ryder
I prefer the absentee ballet. Vote with your feet and get the hell out of there! The vote process only accepts "YES".
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:30 pm
by Korihor
No Tof wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:19 pm
You may know this already, but usually when there is an obvious vote to the contrary you will be invited to meet with the presiding authority to clarify the reasons.
I'm looking forward to such an invitation.
I prefer the absentee ballet. Vote with your feet and get the hell out of there! The vote process only accepts "YES".
Mrs Kori and I discussed this in depth. Do we simply vote with our feet and wallets or do we raise our voices (hands)? For some mild attempt at catharsis and closure, it's important for me to vote opposed.
I fully plan to vote with my feet and wallet, yet I have some sense of desired closure. I will not go silently in the night, but kicking and screaming. I want them to know I am intentionally leaving it behind and why.
Plus, I like to stir the pot. Most of my attempts at pot stirring in this ward have been foiled by general apathy and hill-billie nature of the local members. If this doesn't make a ripple, I don't know what will.
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:32 pm
by RubinHighlander
Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:12 pm
I prefer the absentee ballet. Vote with your feet and get the hell out of there! The vote process only accepts "YES".
Up vote for this one!
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:43 pm
by Give It Time
RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:32 pm
Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:12 pm
I prefer the absentee ballet. Vote with your feet and get the hell out of there! The vote process only accepts "YES".
Up vote for this one!
Another one.
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:29 pm
by No Tof
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:00 pm
by 2bizE
Sam Young has done a good job putting together details on on common consent and voting opposed. If you and Mrs. Kori haven't read through this, I recommend you do...
https://invisiblescubit.wordpress.com/2 ... testimony/
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:59 pm
by Mormorrisey
That takes some series stonage, and I applaud your bravery. I'm not sure I'm there quite yet, but it's coming close. The sad thing is, if they opened up any dialogue, or actually utilized the law of common consent, I would just vote down POLICIES, instead of voting opposed to the dudes in charge. Say, for example, they actually had an opposition vote on the building of malls, the November policy, etc. etc. etc. Instead, they almost are forcing the membership into making this kind of choice, a black and white/binary choice of supporting "the brethren" all or nothing. And it seems more and more people are choosing nothing.
Let us know how this all plays out.
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:53 pm
by Korihor
This podcast episode was the catalyst for me and mrs kori deciding to vote opposed. The more she has thought about common consent the more she decided to vote opposed.
When I got home from work this afternoon, mrs kori was on the phone with her mom trying to assuage her about our decision. She told her mom about this podcast and her mom agreed to listen to it. Later tonight, she was back on the phone helping her mom load this episode into her podcast. (She had to teach her what a podcast is on how to use it on her iPhone).
Soooo, there's that.
I'm going to be sending a email to my parents telling them about our decision as well. I don't think it's fair that one set of grandparents knows and the other doesn't. Or I might call and share with my folks.
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:10 pm
by moksha
I couldn't see myself doing that. Wouldn't want to needlessly alienate my neighbors for some symbolic reason. It would seem too much like my putting a lamp shaped like a women's leg in the front window just because I won it down at the lodge. I mean sure, it functions as a lamp, but do I want the neighbors subsequently crossing their arms, turning their backs and loudly muttering p'tahk as I exit my house? Is the lamp worth my public discommendation?
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:27 pm
by Meilingkie
Kori, you got some balls sir.
You definitely do.
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:43 pm
by LostMormon
of all the people that frequent this board, I think you have gone off the rails the quickest,
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:21 pm
by Red Ryder
LostMormon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:43 pm
of all the people that frequent this board, I think you have gone off the rails the quickest,
If you only knew!
I mean who calls their parents to tell them they're going to vote no at stake conference??
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:50 pm
by Korihor
Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:21 pm
LostMormon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:43 pm
of all the people that frequent this board, I think you have gone off the rails the quickest,
If you only knew!
I mean who calls their parents to tell them they're going to vote no at stake conference??
What are you trying to say???
I called my mom last night and told her very politely our plans. She simply thanked me for my honesty and trust to tell her and said "just be aware of what could be the consequences." I told her I would be more than happy to meet with the SP if he contacted me. I didn't go into details of the reasons but said if she ever wanted to talk about, I'm always available.
She's heartbroken over all this, but at the same time tries not to show it. Really, I know I'm pretty lucky regarding how my folks and her folks have dealt with this.
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:19 pm
by GoodBoy
Some people stay and fight and prove that they are right and their friends and family are wrong. These people may be able to do some good if nothing else to show that all is not well in Zion. Sometimes trying to prove people wrong, however, makes them grip the tighter to their positions.
My personal plan is to treat my TBM family with love, respect, and even admiration where it is warranted, but to simply fade and stop letting the church control me in any way.
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:58 pm
by Korihor
Text conversation with my mom tonight
Curious why go to stake conference and vote opposing rather than just make an appointment with stake president.
I've thought a lot about that.
D&C 26:2
D&C104:21
The scriptures mandate a vote of common consent. It's our doctrine, voices should be heard.
If it was "just meeting with SP", then why vote at all? There is no need to vote to approve if we just meet with SP to affirm (like we do in a temple recommend.)
Voting in the church is more unanimous than North Korea. Isn't that extremely dangerous? I'm not saying one should vote opposed simply because everyone else is affirmative. But if everyone is voting the same, it's a giant echo chamber of yes men.
I'm voting opposed because I know there are real problems in the church, and most are oblivious or afraid to speak up.
It says "all things" should be done by common consent. Not unanimous consent. If they don't want people voting opposed, they shouldn't have a vote.
What other avenue exists in the church to share with the fellow saints that I have some concerns? If I just meet with my SP, i don't get to share my views in open sunlight with fellow saints. It makes things be done in secrecy where no dissent is openly discussed.
If I only discuss my views with SP, then my voice isn't heard. The SP knows of my concerns, but my voice isn't heard. With a vote, my voice is heard.
I'm rather confident a vote opposed will result in a meeting with the SP. and I'm very willing to meet with him and discuss in detail. But not voting and just meeting with SP is silencing and a control mechanism.
Does that answer your question?
I know we have different opinions on this, but all is not well in Zion and I'm not going to stay quiet about it.
I'm not going to "Just leave the church". They're going to have to drag me out kicking and screaming.
It's too important to me to just leave it alone. It's my life, my identity, my tribe. If I didn't care, I would have been inactive a long time ago.
And I wasn't going to make a decision like this until I was absolutely sure.
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:07 pm
by Red Ryder
Korihor wrote:Voting in the church is more unanimous than North Korea. Isn't that extremely dangerous? I'm not saying one should vote opposed simply because everyone else is affirmative. But if everyone is voting the same, it's a giant echo chamber of yes men.
Your poor mother!
North Korea? Really...
Here's what's going to happen with voting no: nothing, nada , zilcho, crickets!
Nothing happens when people do it in GC. Nothing will happen when you do it in SC.
Your cage door is open. Run, be free, shoo, get outta here, goooooo. Your free!
Re: Voting Opposed
Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:18 pm
by Random
Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:07 pm
Here's what's going to happen with voting no: nothing, nada , zilcho, crickets!
Nothing happens when people do it in GC. Nothing will happen when you do it in SC.
But in ward conference and stake conference, they know who he is. The general authorities don't. They simply direct the naysayer to talk to their SP if they vote no in general conference. If they're dumb enough to do that, the sp can discipline them for not supporting the general authorities. On a local level, they know who you are and can bring you in for the talk (shape up or get disciplined).
out. Yay!!