NOM

Tacenda wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:09 am It will make the believer despise the members that speak up. It will further divide the non believers and the believers.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:25 pm

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:41 am The full article is on archive.org.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190429193 ... es-support

This is very telling.

...Vice President Mohadi had made a specific request for support with the development of clean-water wells in more remote areas of Zimbabwe.

“We want to help in every way we can,” said Elder Andersen. “We are not a wealthy people but we are good people, and we share what we have,” he added...

Elder Andersen also shared with Vice President Mohadi news that the Church planned to begin construction of the Harare Temple in late 2019, an edifice that will bring special blessings to the people of Zimbabwe.

Not wealthy enough to dig wells but wealthy enough to build temples which require attendees to pay 10% of their meager income to a corporation that's sitting on more than $100 billion.

I wonder what Jesus would do?

Does anyone know if the church provided any help on getting clean water for Zimbabwe? "We share what we have" suggests that they could have solved the entire problem with the snap of their finders. I would feel better if I could learn that they raised one (finger, that is).

ETA: I can find plenty of references online to the church doing missionary outreach in Zimbabwe but nothing about helping with their water concerns. I also found claims on the church's philanthropies site that they are providing clean water to poor countries all over the world. Interestingly, Zimbabwe is not one of those countries:
https://www.ldsphilanthropies.org/human ... ean-water
Also, when you click on the More Information link you see that this is really a website for soliciting funds. All this link does is explain why you can't give to a specific cause, but only contribute to the Humanitarian Fund in general...
https://www.ldsphilanthropies.org/human ... -charities
...the same fund that the tithing slip now includes in money that belongs to the church to do with as they damn well please.

No doubt much good is done with (some of) the money from this fund. I have known people who have gone on wheelchair distributing missions, but I don't believe they are using donations from the church, it is money that the church is soliciting apart from all of the wealth they have accumulated and, of course, all of the labor is donated. A big part of those missions seems to be finding donors to fund the projects with their own charitable giving. And good for them. The leadership could learn something about giving from their members.

Newme wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:33 pm

jfro18 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:00 pm

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:16 pm Let’s forget about this for a second.

What new policy or much needed change will be released to shift attention away?

Please... no garments! no garments! No garments!!!!!!

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD, YES PLEASE.

Garments are the worst part of Mormonism and a constant reminder of the control they hold over you and those you love.

And they are ugly as sin.

How weird to know what each other’s underwear looks like. Where else could you take a chapel full of people and they all have the same underwear? We all look goofy and know we all do... or did - for those of us who ditched them. This cult is funny when it isn’t heart-breaking.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:55 pm Perhaps they did help build water infrastructure in Zimbabwe. Not the church side of the house but the investment side aka EPA?

What if Andersen was meeting with the country leaders to work an investment deal under the guise of religion?

Promising investment loads, resources, etc in return for gain and profit?

Removing the Andersen quote doesn’t make any sense other than to hide the bad optics unless they were trying to hide a quite promising investment.

We can’t see the church making donations but anyway to see what types of investments were made in an emerging market like Zimbabwe?

What are they hiding by removing the quote?

The Zimbabwe Industrial Index increased 282 Points or 58.67% since the beginning of 2019, according to trading on a contract for difference (CFD) that tracks this benchmark index from Zimbabwe. Historically, the Zimbabwe Stock Market reached an all time high of 823.75 in November of 2019.

moksha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:59 am

Tacenda wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:09 am It will make the believer despise the members that speak up. It will further divide the non believers and the believers.

Waiting for the new testimonies to show up on Fast Sundays proclaiming, "I believe the Corporation is true".

Spicy McHaggis wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:02 pm Chuck the Furch!

A few days later and I'm still just as pissed.

w2mz wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:24 pm

Spicy McHaggis wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:02 pm Chuck the Furch!

A few days later and I'm still just as pissed.

Same here. It is so frustrating that I can’t just say “F” it and leave the church. My family is so indoctrinated. Its not right that the church can hold my family and my finances hostage.

Just fuming.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:12 pm They will probably start emphasizing more that the purpose of tithing is for the blessings it brings you. It's not about money at all, you know, it's about obedience and the joy of sacrifice.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:28 pm

w2mz wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:24 pm

Spicy McHaggis wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:02 pm Chuck the Furch!

A few days later and I'm still just as pissed.

Same here. It is so frustrating that I can’t just say “F” it and leave the church. My family is so indoctrinated. Its not right that the church can hold my family and my finances hostage.

Just fuming.

New strategy:
Honey, we’ve paid in our fair share of the $100B tithing foundation and future donations will be paid out of our share of that investment income!

This way we can be prudent like the church and build our “second coming rainy day” foundation!

w2mz wrote:

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:28 pm

w2mz wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:24 pm Same here. It is so frustrating that I can’t just say “F” it and leave the church. My family is so indoctrinated. Its not right that the church can hold my family and my finances hostage.

Just fuming.

New strategy:
Honey, we’ve paid in our fair share of the $100B tithing foundation and future donations will be paid out of our share of that investment income!

This way we can be prudent like the church and build our “second coming rainy day” foundation!

Like.

Over on reddit a couple of commenters mentioned a statement from Joesph F. Smith to the effect that he envisioned a day when the church would be funded to the extent where it would be self sustaining and contributions from members would no longer be needed. Does anyone have that actual reference? I am thinking about using that for a new round of tithing negotiations with RW. Thanks!

Still really bothered by this.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:34 am

w2mz wrote:

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:28 pm

New strategy:
Honey, we’ve paid in our fair share of the $100B tithing foundation and future donations will be paid out of our share of that investment income!

This way we can be prudent like the church and build our “second coming rainy day” foundation!

Like.

Over on reddit a couple of commenters mentioned a statement from Joesph F. Smith to the effect that he envisioned a day when the church would be funded to the extent where it would be self sustaining and contributions from members would no longer be needed. Does anyone have that actual reference? I am thinking about using that for a new round of tithing negotiations with RW. Thanks!

Still really bothered by this.

https://archive.org/stream/conferencere ... 7/mode/2up

Page 7

“... we expect to see the day when we will not need to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose, except that which you volunteer to give of your own accord, because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for the advancement of the kingdom of God.”

w2mz wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:01 am

“... we expect to see the day when we will not need to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose, except that which you volunteer to give of your own accord, because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for the advancement of the kingdom of God.”

Kicker in bold.

Anticipated DW response: “How can we not pay, we need the blessings.”

Church wins every time.

moksha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:59 am

Tacenda wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:09 am It will make the believer despise the members that speak up. It will further divide the non believers and the believers.

Waiting for the new testimonies to show up on Fast Sundays proclaiming, "I believe the Corporation is true".