NOM

Anything in particular you found interesting, Korihor? Any particularly enlightening or useful things come out in that?

(It's unlikely I'll ever get around to listening to it. Haven't listened to a Mormon Stories episode in years and years.)

Jeffret wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:13 pm

LostMormon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:39 pm

Jeffret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:03 pm


Is it really our concern?

None of this is really any of our concern, but does that keep us from talking about it? I am with Korihor on this one, as her talk just seems a bit too "grown up" for a 12 year old to be giving, and the recording itself seems a bit suspicious to me. I just hope the Mother is truly supporting her daughter, and not pushing her daughter into something she isn't just to get a little internet fame.

Why?

Can you explain why you believe so?

How does that impact our response?

Just to preface this, after listening to her mormon podcast, I no longer believe this was a set up. I suppose they could be lying, but it sounded legit enough to me.

I guess you're asking why the video looked suspicious?

1. It seems at bit suspicious that there was a video at all. I have been in the church a long time, and have yet to see anybody record their kids testimony.

2. This was before I learned that a friend was taking the video, I assumed it was the parents, but from the angle of the video, it appeared to me that whomever took the video, was trying to hide the fact that they were taking the video. I have been to enough piano recitals, and plays to know, that most parents are not shy about doing whatever it takes to get a good shot of their kids.

3. The testimony was obviously a prepared statement that she read from, I understand that she was probably nervous, and this helped her voice her thoughts, but again, not something I have ever seen in F&T meeting, and lends to the idea that her parents may have helped write it.

4. It was posted on social media, even after the video was taken, and they saw the reaction, they had to know that this would bring a lot of attention to this little girl, be it good or bad. Not something I'm sure I would be comfortable with for my own daughter.


but as others have stated, none of that matters, the reaction was authentic, and shows that the church is not comfortable with giving this type of testimony.

Jeffret wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:52 am I finally got around to listening to Savannah's interview on I Love to Look for Rainbows. (I don't listen to podcasts much.) I think we can pretty confidently answer one of the pressing questions here.

The podcast is here: http://iliketolookforrainbows.com/2017/ ... ahs-story/. A transcript is here: http://iliketolookforrainbows.com/2017/ ... ranscript/.

On the question of whether this was something Savannah's mother pushed her into, or to turn it around, whether this was Savannah's idea and something that she wanted to do, I think the best evidence is to take Savannah's word for it:

Savannah: Yeah. So, I wanted to share my testimony from the beginning of this year, and I kept asking and asking, and getting a “no”, because it would be—

Jerilyn: Who were you asking?

Savannah: Oh, my mom and dad, and they finally said yes, and we started writing my testimony, and we went through a couple of rough drafts, and by the time we finally made the perfect one

This is probably nothing, and maybe I wasn't listening close enough, but in the Dehlin interview, it was my impression that Savannah had written this testimony all by herself, and then had ask her parents several times if she could give it, until her mom basically conceded.

I think I remember hearing her Mom say something to the effect that she gave the testimony to her husband to read, to make sure it was something he was comfortable with (he is still believing), and he said something like yes, this is something that should be heard, I am paraphrasing of course, but I don't remember them mentioning anything about this being a joint effort with her parents to get the perfect draft.

Again it doesn't really matter, just thought this was interesting.

LostMormon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:47 pm This is probably nothing, and maybe I wasn't listening close enough, but in the Dehlin interview, it was my impression that Savannah had written this testimony all by herself, and then had ask her parents several times if she could give it, until her mom basically conceded.

I think I remember hearing her Mom say something to the effect that she gave the testimony to her husband to read, to make sure it was something he was comfortable with (he is still believing), and he said something like yes, this is something that should be heard, I am paraphrasing of course, but I don't remember them mentioning anything about this being a joint effort with her parents to get the perfect draft.

I think there are a couple of different, connected things going on here. They've been described imprecisely and sometimes been confused.

1) Savannah decided she wanted to bear her testimony and talk about being lesbian. She asked her parents for guidance and approval before proceeding. They were hesitant at first but saw that she was serious about it and ended up agreeing to support her on it.

2) Savannah and her parents talked about what she might say and discussed different possibilities. Ultimately, she wrote it. It is her words and her penmanship. Her parents read the final version and gave their approval.

This seems to match the comments I've seen from Savannah and her family. It makes a lot of sense to me and is consistent with how I would approach it. I haven't watched Dehlin's interview. I don't think Savannah or her family find the exact timeline terribly important. It's clear that the whole thing was Savannah's idea. I'm sure her parents worked with her on it, though in the end, I'm pretty confident it was her composition.

This comes at a time when a survey last week by the Public Religion Research Institute revealed that 37% of Mormons support same-sex marriage, with the bulk of that support coming from younger Mormons. I imagine Savannah's treatment will help serve as a dividing wedge between their own belief in social justice and their willingness to support the personal prejudices of LDS Authorities.

oliver_denom wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:35 am
Response from Russell Nelson:
"Sister Nelson, come quickly! This young man has long hair!"
"No, I don't think so Elder Nelson. I believe this is a young girl wearing a tie."
"But he says that he wishes to marry a woman in the temple"
"Oh! I think that's because she suffers from same sex attraction and liberalism!"
"Wait...she isn't wearing pants is she? Woman! Fetch me my proclamation pen!"

Gods help us all when those two finally come in to power.

moksha wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:23 pm This comes at a time when a survey last week by the Public Religion Research Institute revealed that 37% of Mormons support same-sex marriage, with the bulk of that support coming from younger Mormons. I imagine Savannah's treatment will help serve as a dividing wedge between their own belief in social justice and their willingness to support the personal prejudices of LDS Authorities.

Really? 37% that is awesome!

moksha wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:23 pm This comes at a time when a survey last week by the Public Religion Research Institute revealed that 37% of Mormons support same-sex marriage, with the bulk of that support coming from younger Mormons. I imagine Savannah's treatment will help serve as a dividing wedge between their own belief in social justice and their willingness to support the personal prejudices of LDS Authorities.

https://www.prri.org/research/poll-same ... s-liberty/
This gives only 26% of Mormons supporting same-sex marriage, with 7% declining to answer, in 2015.

https://www.prri.org/spotlight/religiou ... -refusals/
And now in 2016, we are up to 37% supporting, with 8% declining to answer.

My fellow NOMs, the work is hastening. No wonder the brethren are distraught.

ulmite wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:42 am

moksha wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:23 pm This comes at a time when a survey last week by the Public Religion Research Institute revealed that 37% of Mormons support same-sex marriage, with the bulk of that support coming from younger Mormons. I imagine Savannah's treatment will help serve as a dividing wedge between their own belief in social justice and their willingness to support the personal prejudices of LDS Authorities.

https://www.prri.org/research/poll-same ... s-liberty/
This gives only 26% of Mormons supporting same-sex marriage, with 7% declining to answer, in 2015.

https://www.prri.org/spotlight/religiou ... -refusals/
And now in 2016, we are up to 37% supporting, with 8% declining to answer.

My fellow NOMs, the work is hastening. No wonder the brethren are distraught.

Wow! So that is 45% who aren't hard-core against gay marriage, with the majority supporting it! The work is hastening!! The field is RAINBOW ready to harvest!