NOM

Well, technically Uchtdorf was replaced by Eyring. Eyring was the 1st counselor and he is now the 2nd (Uchtdorf's old place). Eyring got a demotion too.

Apathy can be delicious.

It's true that more progressive members liked to quote Uchtdorf. Now, I guess a signal has been sent that officials are going to be more hard line than ever. It does not bode well for attracting younger investigators into active membership in the church. I think that with this selection, they may have accidentally "shot themselves in the foot" so to speak. JMO - Wndr.

It seems only natural to want your strongest general by your side if you are going to escalate both the ongoing Mormon War against the Gays, as well as launch a new counteroffensive on heterodoxy.

Oaks will probably spearhead the creation of several covert groups such as Angry Moms for Marriage, Polynesians for Marriage, Patriots for Marriage, and Certified Public Accountants for Marriage. All of these groups will be dedicated to repealing the right of Homosexuals to be married. It will probably follow the same formula as the LDS created National Organization for Marriage, in which church operatives will select a non-Mormon to head the organization and then continue to fund it in secret. Very hush-hush stuff.

At the same time, they will beef up the firepower of the Deathstar.

I'm really curious to see how this affects European membership. Europe was already in a death spiral membership wise, and I can't imagine this will help anything.

BriansThoughtMirror wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:59 pm

AllieOop wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:56 am You're right (I just looked it up). Here's what I found:

- President Romney wasn't retained 30 years ago but that was due to ill health.

- But not since President Brown nearly 40 years ago has something similar to what just happened to Elder Uchtdorf occurred,

- I seem to recall a story about when Hugh B Brown was demoted, it was said, he was so demoted because he was opposed to the priesthood ban and President Lee couldn't disagree with him more.

Can you share a link for this info? Thanks!

Those were posted on other Mormon forums where I was reading today. I'll try to search them out again and post them for you!

Reuben wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:13 am

AllieOop wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:56 am Time will tell if Oaks and Nelson take even a harder line stance against gay issues (there has been more acceptance at times recently, but then the horrible new policy was put in place too and it was Nelson who labeled it a "revelation").

IIRC, Elder Oaks came very close to calling it revelation in his last conference talk.

Whoops. I got the POX mixed up with the proclamation. Having looked back over his talk, I see that President Oaks said everything he could to imply that the proclamation is revelation without actually saying so.

Both of them have called or nearly called anti-LGBT things "revelation." A harder-line stance is almost guaranteed. There's a chance that they'll be counterbalanced by the two new apostles, but it doesn't seem likely.

Reuben wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:45 am There's a chance that they'll be counterbalanced by the two new apostles, but it doesn't seem likely.

Even less likely considering who is choosing the new apostles. This FP has a longer reach than just the next 5 years or so.

moksha wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:03 pm It seems only natural to want your strongest general by your side if you are going to escalate both the ongoing Mormon War against the Gays, as well as launch a new counteroffensive on heterodoxy.

Oaks will probably spearhead the creation of several covert groups such as Angry Moms for Marriage, Polynesians for Marriage, Patriots for Marriage, and Certified Public Accountants for Marriage. All of these groups will be dedicated to repealing the right of Homosexuals to be married. It will probably follow the same formula as the LDS created National Organization for Marriage, in which church operatives will select a non-Mormon to head the organization and then continue to fund it in secret. Very hush-hush stuff.

At the same time, they will beef up the firepower of the Deathstar.

But seriously, I don't see any evidence of this occurring. I think the better explanation is the simplest: Nelson and Oaks are old, old friends.

After Prop 8, the Church pretty much abandoned supporting covert groups or appealing to the membership for fake grassroots activism. It had been pretty effective for them previously and worked very well for them up until Prop 8 passed, but the criticism and blowback after 8's passage clearly spooked them. They clearly expected to keep their involvement secret and that did not work in a big way. While the Church helped establish the National Organization for Marriage, it's abundantly clear they haven't been a driver there for a long time. At least as far back as when Brian Brown became president, the National Organization for Marriage has clearly been an unofficial arm of the Catholic Church.

Also, there hasn't been any indication that the Church has sought to repeal gay marriage since Obergefell. I find this a little surprising and unusual, but it's been pretty consistent. They still oppose most expansions of gay rights, but they haven't made this a central activity. They've drawn their line at having to recognize or accept gays, which is legally a very defensible line, though not so much morally.

GoodBoy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:20 pm Apathy can be delicious.

To be sure. It tastes kinda like chicken...BBQ chicken.

The Beast wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:44 pm

GoodBoy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:20 pm Apathy can be delicious.

To be sure. It tastes kinda like chicken...BBQ chicken.

And beer, always beer

Uchtdorf out, no surprise there.

Oaks in, no surprise at all.
Nelson lives nextdoor to Oaks, literally.
Nelson was actively recruited by Oaks in the 70's to become the Dean of the University of Chicago's Medical School.
(He declined)
Nelson and Oaks were also called together in the Twelve.

So they have a long history together.