NOM

Random wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:06 pmI think that is true a lot of the time, but I would hesitate to say "always".

Alright, change the always to mostly. Take the latest Mexico earthquake for example. Most of the dead were children buried in a collapsed grade school. That aught to teach those queers a lesson.

Random wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:06 pmI really do think that God wants all of us to wake up and turn to them - not to the sects who throw their weight around, pretending to speak for God and to have a corner on truth, but to the Gods that reside within our souls, the ones that we might recognize if we could only throw out all the stuff the pollutes us.

Personally, I find the whole idea of invisible beings punishing innocents for the purpose of scaring people into believing in them completely repugnant. Only the very worst kind of people have to kill and maim to get respect. I would expect more of gods. If any of them are listening I would like to suggest that they merely appear in the sky above our major cities, tell us how much they love us, and then prove it by using their weather-controlling powers to bring in some bumper crops. Maybe they could take a page from the NT Jesus who fed the multitudes who were just willing to sit and listen to him, rather than the BoM Jesus who had to show everybody who's the boss at the expense of horrific loss of life.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:21 am

Random wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:06 pmI think that is true a lot of the time, but I would hesitate to say "always".

Alright, change the always to mostly. Take the latest Mexico earthquake for example. Most of the dead were children buried in a collapsed grade school. That aught to teach those queers a lesson.

I'm gonna thread jack a little bit. The past year-ish I have come to look at humanity with much more empathy than I did as a TBM. I also hate how most media networks cover a story. Hurricane Irma was the only headline for 1 whole week because it might hit Florida. It devastated Barbuda (I've been there, its beautiful). Puerto Rico just got nailed by Hurricane Maria. 100% power grid failure. But meh, it didn't cause any problems in the US mainland so whatev's. Puerto Rican and US Citizens! Barbudans are humans!

But we freak out when a 25 houses in florida get wiped out.

I digress, I'm slightly off my target. Where am I going with this... The recent earthquake in Mexico City is tragic. Just imagine being in their shoes. This morning the main story was they found a little girl trapped under the rubble of her school and they are bringing cranes to remove debris and rescue her. Could you imagine that being your daughter. I would lose my freaking mind. I go bizerk when my 3 yr daughter starts crying because she bonked her head on the playground.

So 2000 (+/-) years ago, Jesus gets pissed and causes earthquakes, floods, 3 days pure darkness to vent his frustration on a people 1/2 way around the world that had nothing to do with his death. Imagining such an event, what about some of the faithful whose daughter was trapped in heavy debris from an earthquake. A believing spouse that was drown as a city was gobbled up. What kind of jerk 'God' would do something like this and then expect those people to worship him?

These modern natural disasters put a face on the horror that ancient peoples have suffered. It's just tragic. But then you want me to believe "Jesus loves the little children, let them come unto me." Well he just freaking crushed thousands of children a few days prior.

Korihor wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:36 amThese modern natural disasters put a face on the horror that ancient peoples have suffered.

And to come to the same conclusion as they did, that there must be a pissed-off magical being behind, it requires you to unlearn thousands of years of intellectual advancement. Further thread jack: Maybe there should be a related qualifying question on health insurance policies: "Do you believe in a) magic or b) science?" The answer you give determines the nature of the treatments you are eligible for.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:21 am

Random wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:06 pmI think that is true a lot of the time, but I would hesitate to say "always".

Alright, change the always to mostly. Take the latest Mexico earthquake for example. Most of the dead were children buried in a collapsed grade school. That aught to teach those queers a lesson.

I could accept "mostly."

You guys are very convincing. My belief about God and what they do is still in flux. At this point, I believe I have enough internal evidence for their existence. I believe they are loving. A lot of this stuff (like why disasters hurt the innocent) I haven't figured out yet.

By the way, Hagoth, I would laugh at this, "That aught to teach those queers a lesson," if it weren't true that some people probably believe this.

Random wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:01 am By the way, Hagoth, I would laugh at this, "That aught to teach those queers a lesson," if it weren't true that some people probably believe this.

Yes, and it's one of the saddest imaginable commentaries on human attitudes.

I agree. I totally agree.

My daughter's in laws apparently believe that cruelty will humble the gay right out of people. They are treating their own daughter with hatred, so if us humans do it to each other, why not believe in a God who thinks killing loved ones in a grand display of power will scare people straight. After all it is only important to obey, no matter if you do it because you are terrified or because you love God.

Where is my throwing up emoticon?

alas wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:38 am Where is my throwing up emoticon?

There are quite a few on this site. Just search for "vomit".
http://www.sherv.net/search.html

Random wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:00 am

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:21 am

Random wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:06 pmI think that is true a lot of the time, but I would hesitate to say "always".

Alright, change the always to mostly. Take the latest Mexico earthquake for example. Most of the dead were children buried in a collapsed grade school. That aught to teach those queers a lesson.

I could accept "mostly."

You guys are very convincing. My belief about God and what they do is still in flux. At this point, I believe I have enough internal evidence for their existence. I believe they are loving. A lot of this stuff (like why disasters hurt the innocent) I haven't figured out yet.

I think that God allows the disasters to happen, which is different than causing them. Consider earthquakes. So, in order to prevent earthquakes, God would have to stop the tectonic plates. In order to stop the tectonic plates, he has to cool the molten core of earth. No, molten earth core, no magnetic shield, no ozone layer, and all humans get fried by ultra violet rays, so duh, God allows earthquakes.

I think God works through natural laws. And the natural laws mean that we here on earth are subject to hurricanes, wild fires, Trump, and other disasters. We also have free agency, which means that some humans are going to do mean and stupid things. God does not step in to stop the consequences of natural laws or free agency.

I believe that God started the universe with a big band, then let the stars and other debris settle into place. Maybe he triggered the start of life, but he left it to evolve by natural selection, with maybe a well timed comet smashing into earth and killing off things like T-Rex that would prevent those little bitty primates from evolving into humans.

So, whether you want to look at it as God works through natural laws, or God IS the natural laws, I don't mind. But I do not believe in a helicopter God who hovers and prevents us from stubbing our toe. Or as we are jumping up and down screaming ow, ow, ow, ow, will step in and prevent us from going over a cliff because we are not watching where we jump as we scream with our eyes closed. I think God just watches stuff happen, maybe offering comfort with the pain of the stubbed toe, or asking us what we learned about jumping up and down screaming with our eyes closed.

God is not all powerful, just as the Mormon church teaches, because he operates through natural laws, and doesn't interfere with our free agency. That's two ways that God is not all powerful and that he does not stop bad things from happening to good people.

The thing is, that humans do not want a limited God. They want a sky daddy who will protect them from bad stuff, and yet teach those queers a lesson. They want a God who plays favorites, as long as they are favorite.

alas wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:51 am I think that God allows the disasters to happen, which is different than causing them.
. . .

God is not all powerful, just as the Mormon church teaches, because he operates through natural laws, and doesn't interfere with our free agency.

I agree with both of these.

I don't think God is waiting with a hammer to crush those who we judge to be wicked. Your explanations of why earthquakes happen make sense.

The thing is, that humans do not want a limited God. They want a sky daddy who will protect them from bad stuff, and yet teach those queers a lesson. They want a God who plays favorites, as long as they are favorite.

There seems to be a propensity among the religious to view themselves as God's favorites, and anyone who does not believe like they do are going to go to some version of hell at worst, and are "not as good as us" at best.