NOM

The question is often asked of the bishops of highly placed church leaders, "do they go to tithing settlement?" The response I've always heard from said bishops of highly placed church leaders is that yes they do and they attend tithing settlement with their local bishops and that all worthiness matters are handled by the Brethren.

Why was this handled by the Q15? My guess is it's standard procedure and has been since long before the CES letter.

As to why he was ex-communicated? It's none of my business. He may have signed non-disclosure agreements and we may never hear directly from him the reason.

Why was it handled publicly? Because he's highly placed and has represented the church in the most public and worldwide fashion available at the present time. Because getting out in front of the story gives it fewer "legs" than letting the rumor mill run rampant. It actually gives him more dignity and privacy, believe it or not. I do agree with Silver Girl that elements of this seem to be defensive, rather than offensive in it's maneuvering.

Finally, this must be a very difficult time for him and his family. They are in my prayers and my lovingkindness meditations.

Just saw this posted on another forum:

Some information from someone close to his family;

Quote

He hasnt lost his faith. His Family is "devastated" "embarrassed". 2 oldest children of 6 are non-believers. That's all I know. I hope we can be a supportive group and not jump to too many conclusions like the Paul Swenson fiasco.

Give It Time wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:47 pmWhy was it handled publicly? Because he's highly placed and has represented the church in the most public and worldwide fashion available at the present time. Because getting out in front of the story gives it fewer "legs" than letting the rumor mill run rampant.

And maybe because they have learned the hard way that we live in an internet age where you just can't keep significant events like this secret, so better to soften the blow than do something shady that will backfire on you.

It is now being posted by friends of the family, that it involved another woman.

Don't know if that's true, but others have stated the sources are good. Either way, the truth usually leaks out eventually, so we will see.

He visited our stake last year as it was being re-organized. I have a friend that is by all appearances still in the church but their bishop knows he/she is out. Elder Hamula told his/her father, who is in the same stake, that he wanted to talk with him/her about their personal issues. He/she brought up a lot of things including asking was Elder Nelson really inspired by revelation or was that just an old man claiming his opinion as doctrine. Hamula was very easy to talk to and admitted that there were many many problems. He also gave his business card and wrote a personal cell phone number and invited him/her to call at anytime. Very approachable and very friendly. I think some of the "brethren" get jealous when someone else seems more lenient and is more popular. Not sure if popularity has anything to do with it.

AllieOop wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:11 pm It is now being posted by friends of the family, that it involved another woman.

Don't know if that's true, but others have stated the sources are good. Either way, the truth usually leaks out eventually, so we will see.

Poor guy - 150 years ago he could have got away with it. With as many "other women" as he wanted really.

He can go back to being a lawyer and doing his own thing.

I bet Hamula never says a word of this to anyone (no interviews or podcasts). In a few years he rejoins and all is well (since he probably already had his second anointing).

In the mean time, probably not fun to have your picture at the top of my Google news feed (CBS/Washington Post). I purposely thumbs down articles about the church, so for this to poke through, it is a big one.

There's a good chance he had the second anointing, how does that work now?

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:06 pm

Give It Time wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:47 pmWhy was it handled publicly? Because he's highly placed and has represented the church in the most public and worldwide fashion available at the present time. Because getting out in front of the story gives it fewer "legs" than letting the rumor mill run rampant.

And maybe because they have learned the hard way that we live in an internet age where you just can't keep significant events like this secret, so better to soften the blow than do something shady that will backfire on you.

Precisely. My ex has been stalking me through the ward members. My son was recently outed as a member of the LGBTQA community. I knew those people reporting to my ex would be saying all sorts of conjecture that would be only about 10% true. So, I got out ahead of the story and made a bold public statement. I didn't want to do it that way. But I knew the rumor mill would churn a lot less if I was the one doling out the grist. Too bad we can't just let people live their lives, but there it is.

I notice the family is coming out and stating the reason. I think that was probably part of the plan. It's all unfortunate, but I think it'll be easier, long run.

no1saint wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:34 am There's a good chance he had the second anointing, how does that work now?

I think he has received his second anointing for sure. A great many stake presidents receive theirs, mission presidents do, stake patriarchs do and so on. I highly doubt he'd get that high up without receiving his.

So, he should pretty much have a free pass, unless he denies the Holy Ghost.

If the 12 truly believe that, then he shouldn't have been ex'd (unless that's what he did in their eyes). So, I see this as a public shaming to use him as an example for other higher ups that the leaders may know are having some issues.

I'd imagine it's pretty effective too.


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Ok, what if he had come out?

I think this statement from the leaders is revealing;

"In rare cases the decision of a disciplinary council may be shared publicly to prevent others from being harmed through misinformation"

Are they worried he's going to talk? Exing him is a good means of silencing him or at least causing TBMs to not take seriously anything he states afterwards.

I don't have any evidence or real reason to think this, but my gut reaction was, "Well, somebody's been leaking all those documents to MormonLeaks..." Just a thought.

I have read statements from a number of people who have known him, including exmos, and he sounds like a really good guy. Maybe he's just one of those people who confessed something that he should probably have kept to himself and was punished for his honesty.

To run a little bit more on the LGBT idea:

The Q15 can keep their mouths shut.
The family will keep their mouths shut.
The Corporation has plausible denial because they "can't discuss it" (except to say it's really, really not about church history and stuff).

Do older men with kids come out? Ask Carole Lynn Pearson.

What would be the result of a GA, with 6 kids, coming out? With a non-disclosure the Corporation do have some leverage to keep him quiet...

His wife is pressured culturally to deny, obfuscate, and ignore due to shaming...

Short of legal action of some kind (arrest, trial) there's really no way to know.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:03 am I have read statements from a number of people who have known him, including exmos, and he sounds like a really good guy. Maybe he's just one of those people who confessed something that he should probably have kept to himself and was punished for his honesty.

I honestly don't believe they would have ex'd him so publicly unless someone else was about to expose what took place. I don't know how serious what he did was, but I've known a few men (and one woman) who had affairs and weren't even disciplined. So, I have to believe that the 12 would have just released him without causing public embarrassment to them and the church of their hand hadn't been forced in some way.

I first heard about this on the 10:00 news last night, and they said that it wasn't for apostasy, but it was for something that is very "rare". What the heck would that be?

I too, think the church would have keep it as quiet as possible, had they not felt forced in some way. If they really wanted to get out in front of it, they should have told everybody that it happened, and the reason for it. Telling everybody that it happened, but leaving the reason for it a big mystery, will just create more buzz in my opinion.

Regardless of the real reason for the disciplinary action, the fact that they are specifying only that it was not for "disillusionment or apostasy" is very telling. They could just as easily have said it was for "behavior unbecoming a General Authority" or something equally generic. To me this suggests that they either expected people to jump to the apostasy conclusion or that it is something that they are concerned about within their own ranks, or both, which leads me to surmise that they are showing their cards a bit more than they intend. My gut response to this statement is similar to what my spider sense tells me when Mr. Trump tweets that there is no chaos in the White House.

ETA: FWIW, you can't excommunicate someone for being disillusioned. That's like a boss firing an employee for being disappointed with the company's performance.

no1saint wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:34 am There's a good chance he had the second anointing, how does that work now?

It means two things:

1. The 2nd anointing is trumped by the first presidency's disciplinary actions.

2. The 2nd anointing doesn't mean what we think it means.

3. It's all Hocus Pocus™

disillusionment or apostasy

Why did they stick the word "disillusionment" in there? Can you get excommunicated for disillusionment? Nope. But you can for apostasy. So why don't they just say it wasn't for apostasy?

Is it maybe to reinforce the view that apostasy can only fault of the apostate? There can be no good reason to leave the church (by definition). The only way you can apostatize is if you are confused or "disillusioned." It certainly wouldn't happen to anyone in their right mind now would it?