NOM

As SN points out, millions of Republican voters believe Trump's fiction. But millions don't. What we may be seeing is the beginning of the Republican constituency eating itself alive. If Trump keeps this up and if enough of his people stay on track, especially if he makes a run in 2024, it won't be Republicans vs. Democrats it will be Republicans vs. MAGAs. That's a schism that could guarantee smooth running for Democrats for many elections to come. But maybe Trump is just dropping hints so he can keep doing stand-up concerts and raking in checks. He's taking in more money now than when he was campaigning.

Today's news (actually more from yesterday):

Michael Flynn calls on Trump to suspend the constitution and enact martial law.

Interesting chain of events. Flynn admitted to federal crimes and was given appropriate punishment. Trump pardons him and immediately Flynn calls for military force and getting the meddlesome constitution out of the way so Trump can override the peoples' vote. This is how it happens, folks. Good thing Flynn has no power. Good thing Trump's power is waning.

Also,
Today Nevada District Court James T. Russell dismissed the Trump campaign’s formal challenge to the state’s election results, ruling that the Trump team failed to substantiate its claims of voter fraud or offer any convincing proof “under any standard of evidence.”

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:20 am Michael Flynn calls on Trump to suspend the constitution and enact martial law.
Good thing Flynn has no power. Good thing Trump's power is waning.

Couldn't Flynn and Trump still call upon the Proud Boys Divisions 1-3, The White House Staff, The Dixie Pickup Truck Brigade, Klan Units 1&2, The Nauvoo and Danite Legion, and the Russian Army.

moksha wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:15 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:20 am Michael Flynn calls on Trump to suspend the constitution and enact martial law.
Good thing Flynn has no power. Good thing Trump's power is waning.

Couldn't Flynn and Trump still call upon the Proud Boys Divisions 1-3, The White House Staff, The Dixie Pickup Truck Brigade, Klan Units 1&2, The Nauvoo and Danite Legion, and the Russian Army.

A lot of Trumpsters keep bringing up this idea that if we want to avoid a civil war we better just throw up our hands and surrender the vote to Trump. "Nice country you got here, it would be a shame if something happened to it."

I have a better idea. Don't start shooting people because you didn't get your way. The Proud Boys, neo-Nazis, and militias are laboring under the delusion that everybody who voted for Trump would support them in the slaughter of their friends and neighbors. What they're talking about is terrorism and it would not be tolerated by decent, level-headed Americans, regardless of party affiliation.

Today's news:

Republican Georgia Governor Brian Kemp informs Trump that he cannot legally do anything to change the outcome of the election in Trump's favor. He insists that "only legal votes are counted in Georgia."

Also:

The 11th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals in Atlanta issued a unanimous 3-0 ruling affirming a ruling in the lower U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia tossing the lawsuit.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:55 pm I have a better idea. Don't start shooting people because you didn't get your way. The Proud Boys, neo-Nazis, and militias are laboring under the delusion that everybody who voted for Trump would support them in the slaughter of their friends and neighbors. What they're talking about is terrorism and it would not be tolerated by decent, level-headed Americans, regardless of party affiliation.

Wish we could swear in President Biden early in order to nip this revolution for Dictator Trump in the bud. America might well become a fascist country someday, but I hope that is many years off.

Everybody saw Melissa Carone's testimony in the Michigan voter fraud hearing, the punchline being when she accused the Republican state representatives of tampering with state voting records in favor of Democrats after they informed her that her claims didn't match the evidence.

But there were some other noteworthy witnesses in that hearing that didn't get as much attention. Hima Kolanagireddy, an Indian-American witness, said, “A lot of people think Indians look alike. I think all Chinese people look alike. So, how would you tell? If some Chow show up, you can be anybody and you can vote.” Stephanie Chang (not Chow!), the first Asian American woman in the Michigan Senate commented, “Aside from being racist, her argument makes no sense at all. If you think everyone looks the same, how is a photo ID going to help you?”

The most straight-forward testimony appears to have come from Giuliani himself, but not from his mouth.

Today's news:

Trump called Georgia governor Brian Kemp to ask for a special legislative session to overturn the vote. Kemp refused on the basis of lack evidence and legal authority to change the vote. Georgia's Republican Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger reaffirmed that there is no evidence of voter fraud and states that holding a special session would be “nullifying the will of the people.”

Georgia's Republican lieutenant governor Geoff Duncan said, “The mountains of misinformation are not helping the process; they are only hurting it. I voted for President Trump, I campaigned for him. And, unfortunately, he did not win the state of Georgia.”

Gabriel Sterling, republican voting system implementation manager for Georgia said, "The president's statements are false. They are misinformation. They are stoking anger and fear among his supporters - and hell, I voted for him."

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:09 pmToday's news:

And... Rudy Giuliani has tested positive for coronavirus.

Are the baseless lawsuits on hold until he recovers?

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:09 pm Gabriel Sterling, republican voting system implementation manager for Georgia said, "The president's statements are false. They are misinformation. They are stoking anger and fear among his supporters - and hell, I voted for him."

Everyone gets stung by Trump's narcissistic tantrum. The scary thing is that Trump's supporters are still talking about armed revolution and wanting Trump to declare martial law.

Trump held a rally in Georgia, and it looked like no one in the crowd was wearing a mask. 60 years ago you could count on most rallies to Georgia to feature white hoods.

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:22 pm The scary thing is that Trump's supporters are still talking about armed revolution and wanting Trump to declare martial law.

Yeah, the same people who are always waving the constitution around like their second flag, and who are constantly accusing the Democrats of stomping all over it are now actually calling for the suspension of the constitution. But just long enough for them to intimidate, imprison, or kill the people -Democrats and Republicans alike- who show more allegiance to the the constitution than to Trump.

A note about counting machines. All of this talk about voting machines flipping the votes is silly. There was actually a small instance of it, however, which was immediately flagged as an anomaly by the software and fixed before those votes were added to the tally. But IT DOESN'T MATTER. Unlike the economy, the election still has a gold standard, or in this case a paper standard. The recounts were done using the actual paper ballots.

Today's news:

Georgia recertifies Biden's victory for the third time. “We have now counted legally cast ballots three times, and the results remain unchanged,” Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, a Republican, said in a news conference.

Also,

Arguing that “a license to practice law is not a license to lie,” nearly 1,500 lawyers issued a letter on Monday calling on bar associations across the country to investigate Trump’s legal team. “It is indefensible for lawyers to falsely proclaim widespread voting fraud, submit a pattern of frivolous court claims and actively seek to undermine citizens’ faith in our election’s integrity,” said the letter, which was signed by several former judges, former federal prosecutors and law professors. “We condemn this conduct without reservation.”

Also today:

The Michigan lawsuit seeking to overturn the state’s election results led by former Trump advisor Sidney Powell was rejected in federal court as U.S. District Court Judge Linda V. Parker denounced conspiracy theories based around Dominion voting machines as “an amalgamation of theories, conjecture, and speculation,” noting that the plaintiffs did not actually give proof that any votes were flipped.

And:

U.S. District Court Judge Timothy Batten dismissed Trump's latest case to overturn the vote in Georgia, saying that the GOP plaintiffs “simply do not have standing to bring these claims,” and based on the lack of evidence he is unwilling to overturn the will of millions of Georgia voters.

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:22 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:09 pm Gabriel Sterling, republican voting system implementation manager for Georgia said, "The president's statements are false. They are misinformation. They are stoking anger and fear among his supporters - and hell, I voted for him."

Everyone gets stung by Trump's narcissistic tantrum. The scary thing is that Trump's supporters are still talking about armed revolution and wanting Trump to declare martial law.

Trump held a rally in Georgia, and it looked like no one in the crowd was wearing a mask. 60 years ago you could count on most rallies to Georgia to feature white hoods.

You can read into this what you want, but I like to offer a little perspective.

You can continue your hateful attacks about how stupid Trump supporters or you can consider that Trump's supporters are sincere about their feelings about this. I don't support the martial law option because I think that would have a reverse effect.

You can continue to call us stupid, retarded, cult members, racist, etc, but that isn't going to convince any of them (or me) that this was a fair election. You can continue to insist that we are stupid and are not seeing what we say we are seeing, but that isn't going to solve anything.

Even if there wasn't obvious fraud, there are many situations where Republicans were ejected from the counting process. Also, in PA, the government had Act 77 2019 passed that allowed for mass mail-in ballots, but PA Constitution Article VII Section 14 restricts mail ballots to specific reasons. So the mail-in ballots violated the PA constitution. Sure, a lot of people thought it was convenient to have this law because of the pandemic, but how would the governor know about the pandemic in October of 2019? He legally blocked republican poll watchers which should a given from a fair election. Plus, he extended the voting period 3 days, which even the state shouldn't have the power to do. This is a national election, one state cannot randomly change the rules.

Anyway, sure, going ahead and mock me, and others like me, but this election was a fraud and we will not accept it.

Maybe if you had been attacked for the last 4 years by the opposition for simply winning the election, researching all of the accusations, you might understand where we are. If we are as stupid as you think, we will simply roll over and accept Biden as the rightfully elected president. If we are smart enough to feel convicted in our beliefs, this might be the last election in America for a while. While you are striving to be right when your opposition is obviously so stupid as to not warrant the effort to understand, we are losing respect for you too and really don't care what you think.

SaidNobody wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:39 pm You can continue to call us stupid, retarded, cult members, racist, etc, but that isn't going to convince any of them (or me) that this was a fair election. You can continue to insist that we are stupid and are not seeing what we say we are seeing, but that isn't going to solve anything.

I have never called you that.

If we are smart enough to feel convicted in our beliefs, this might be the last election in America for a while. While you are striving to be right when your opposition is obviously so stupid as to not warrant the effort to understand, we are losing respect for you too and really don't care what you think.

I do not doubt your scorched earth approach to American democracy. I hope it does not come to pass.

moksha wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:43 am

SaidNobody wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:39 pm You can continue to call us stupid, retarded, cult members, racist, etc, but that isn't going to convince any of them (or me) that this was a fair election. You can continue to insist that we are stupid and are not seeing what we say we are seeing, but that isn't going to solve anything.

I have never called you that.

It looked like you implied it with this comment hot on the heels of describing a Trump rally in Georgia:

60 years ago you could count on most rallies to Georgia to feature white hoods.

Now, this opinion of yours is one I very strongly agree with:

If we are smart enough to feel convicted in our beliefs, this might be the last election in America for a while. While you are striving to be right when your opposition is obviously so stupid as to not warrant the effort to understand, we are losing respect for you too and really don't care what you think.

I do not doubt your scorched earth approach to American democracy. I hope it does not come to pass.

Every once in a great while it might be right to suspend democracy for the sake of democracy, but this is NOT one of those times.

At the beginning of this thing SaidNobody asked me if I would believe the purported evidence when it was proven to be true. I said yes. I asked if he would be willing to accept if it was demonstrated to not be true. He said no. Well, that's exactly where things stand today.

All of Team Trump's evidence has been laughed out of courts and hearings by Republican judges and officials who have chosen law and ethics over loyalty. Trump seems to have nothing left but lies and tantrums. More and more Republicans are calling on him to grow a pair and find some big boy pants. If his followers are so sensitive about being called gullible maybe this is a good time for them to stop shouting and start listening.

And stop showing up at peoples' front doors with guns to try and intimidate them and their families, for crying out loud. Simply because they did their job to the best of their ability.

Nobody looks more uninformed and incapable of reasonable discourse than someone who needs to hide behind a gun.

SaidNobody wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:39 pm ...but how would the governor know about the pandemic in October of 2019?

Maybe because it was actually October of 2020? Even so it's really hard to imagine an evil villain thinking a year in advance, "if I could just somehow get them to count votes for a couple more days my evil plan to overthrow the government will come to fruition!" What actually happened was that the supreme court upheld the 3 day extension because the postal service had raised a red flag that the mail would be lagging because of the pandemic and it would be a good idea to let all of the legally cast votes be counted.

The only reason anyone was fighting this was because they know Democrats vote by mail in higher numbers than Republicans. Cancelling the extension would actually be an attempt to tamper with the election, not the other way around. No evil plot here.

Trumper will have their say today the US Supreme Court, who may toss out the entire thing and give it to Trump, or they might preserve the Constitution and follow the rules. This Trump court has already ruled that religious groups are exempt from COVID-19 regulations, completely reversing its stand before Justice Barrett.