NOM

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:26 pm If you had $100,000 in the bank and we’re fined by the SEC you would be paying a $5 fine.

Crime pays, even when you get caught. HWJC (How Would Jesus Cheat).

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:49 pm Do these people still have no idea how the internet works? It's not closed at all, people who don't like the church's non-transparency will have a heyday with this, and the church will still think they can do business as usual while all around them people will bring this up to justify not paying tithing anymore and a whole host of other things.

The funny thing is that they have admitted that the reason for it was concern that people would stop paying tithing. Now everyone can see that they have acted illegally and immorally out of greed. They never run out of ways to shoot themselves in the foot. Gotta love it.

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:19 am But if someone can't or won't deny their guilt, to me it's the same as admitting it.

Seems comfortable alongside neither giving nor accepting apologies.

Over at the Mormon D&D apologetic board, they are spinning the story that this is all the SEC's fault and the Church did nothing wrong. I suspect that is the story that will be fed to the faithful, that the satan-fueled SEC falsely accused the innocent Saints.

moksha wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:46 pm Over at the Mormon D&D apologetic board, they are spinning the story that this is all the SEC's fault and the Church did nothing wrong. I suspect that is the story that will be fed to the faithful, that the satan-fueled SEC falsely accused the innocent Saints.

Unmitigated Kool-aid drinkers....

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:04 pm

moksha wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:46 pm Over at the Mormon D&D apologetic board, they are spinning the story that this is all the SEC's fault and the Church did nothing wrong. I suspect that is the story that will be fed to the faithful, that the satan-fueled SEC falsely accused the innocent Saints.

Unmitigated Kool-aid drinkers....

Shame on that evil government for trying to steal sacred mormon Jebus dollars! This is Biden's fault; never would have happened with Trump or Romney in office.

I really hope this gives some jet fuel to a class action suite!

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 3:15 pm The funny thing is that they have admitted that the reason for it was concern that people would stop paying tithing. Now everyone can see that they have acted illegally and immorally out of greed. They never run out of ways to shoot themselves in the foot. Gotta love it.

I just realized that they FINALLY made a prophesy that came true. Testimony restored.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 12:01 pm I just realized that they FINALLY made a prophesy that came true. Testimony restored.

I listened to the Mormon Stories episode about this today. I highly recommend it.

https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/l ... k-pugsley/

The church did some really slimy stuff. No incompetency or misunderstandings here, just calculated, deliberate dishonesty for profit. These are bad people.

Making an assumption here.

Did the timing of the Ensign magazine name change to Liahona have anything to do with pushing members away from googling Ensign to avoid ensign peace search results from popping up?

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:35 pm I listened to the Mormon Stories episode about this today. I highly recommend it.

https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/l ... k-pugsley/

The church did some really slimy stuff. No incompetency or misunderstandings here, just calculated, deliberate dishonesty for profit. These are bad people.

I listened and it was insightful, though I kinda wish it would have been done in two parts. 1) Just the bare bones legal summary of what the church did, without commentary. 2) the opinions of both the lawyer and John. It seemed like the conversation repeatedly got bogged down in “can you believe the church has so much money, why does Jesus need so much money…” discussion. That got a little old.

I would REALLY like to know more about the IRS law suit that was mentioned. He said that the SEC fine was just an afterthought compared to what the IRS is looking into. Anyone have more info on that? I hope there really is a part two to this where those who were in the know get jail time and the church gets a substantial penealty.

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:37 am

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:26 pm To put this in perspective:

If you had $100,000 in the bank and we’re fined by the SEC you would be paying a $5 fine.

It says more about the lack of enforcement bite the SEC has to slap billion dollar companies with meaningful fines.

The church won’t ever admit they hid assets and this is considered a win. I’ll bet they go home tonight and celebrate with lemonade and cookies. Or as Elder Connor McGregor would say “it’s red garmie night!”

If I am understanding thing correctly, the got a $5M fine for failure to disclose a $35B investment fund. So if they make 7% interest of that money, that fund alone will earn the $5M back in 6.81 hours. Meaning that by the time the check has cleared, they have already make back their money.

$5 is not even a slap on the wrist for LDSinc.

Wasn't it 100 billion a few years ago?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mormon ... 1581138011

Why is it down to 35 billion? Stock crash? Bad investing?

Angel wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:30 pm

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:37 am

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:26 pm To put this in perspective:

If you had $100,000 in the bank and we’re fined by the SEC you would be paying a $5 fine.

It says more about the lack of enforcement bite the SEC has to slap billion dollar companies with meaningful fines.

The church won’t ever admit they hid assets and this is considered a win. I’ll bet they go home tonight and celebrate with lemonade and cookies. Or as Elder Connor McGregor would say “it’s red garmie night!”

If I am understanding thing correctly, the got a $5M fine for failure to disclose a $35B investment fund. So if they make 7% interest of that money, that fund alone will earn the $5M back in 6.81 hours. Meaning that by the time the check has cleared, they have already make back their money.

$5 is not even a slap on the wrist for LDSinc.

Wasn't it 100 billion a few years ago?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mormon ... 1581138011

Why is it down to 35 billion? Stock crash? Bad investing?

That was just the amount they were trying to hide.

Angel wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:30 pm

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:37 am


If I am understanding thing correctly, the got a $5M fine for failure to disclose a $35B investment fund. So if they make 7% interest of that money, that fund alone will earn the $5M back in 6.81 hours. Meaning that by the time the check has cleared, they have already make back their money.

$5 is not even a slap on the wrist for LDSinc.

Wasn't it 100 billion a few years ago?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mormon ... 1581138011

Why is it down to 35 billion? Stock crash? Bad investing?

What I have read is that $35B is the amount they have in US based stock market securities. Basically just what the SEC has jurisdiction over. That does not cover foreign based securities, or thing not traded in the stock market like land.

That is just one part of the $157 Billion total in the fund.

w2mz wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:41 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:35 pm I listened to the Mormon Stories episode about this today. I highly recommend it.

https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/l ... k-pugsley/

The church did some really slimy stuff. No incompetency or misunderstandings here, just calculated, deliberate dishonesty for profit. These are bad people.

I listened and it was insightful, though I kinda wish it would have been done in two parts. 1) Just the bare bones legal summary of what the church did, without commentary. 2) the opinions of both the lawyer and John. It seemed like the conversation repeatedly got bogged down in “can you believe the church has so much money, why does Jesus need so much money…” discussion. That got a little old.

I would REALLY like to know more about the IRS law suit that was mentioned. He said that the SEC fine was just an afterthought compared to what the IRS is looking into. Anyone have more info on that? I hope there really is a part two to this where those who were in the know get jail time and the church gets a substantial penealty.

I agree. The podcast was informative with a heavy dose of sarcasm. The wife listened to it and is pretty pissed off the church requires honesty while actively being dishonest.

In regards to the IRS..

David Neilson was a former ENsign Peak Advisors employee. He leaked a bunch of stuff that supported the 13F investigation and reported the church to the IRS for alleged tax fraud and violations of the IRS code around tax exempt organizations. His work helped substantiate the 13F SEC investigation and looks to still be a valid complaint.

Google letter to IRS Director.

http://openargs.com/wp-content/uploads ... -Final.pdf

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:32 am

Angel wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:30 pm

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:37 am


If I am understanding thing correctly, the got a $5M fine for failure to disclose a $35B investment fund. So if they make 7% interest of that money, that fund alone will earn the $5M back in 6.81 hours. Meaning that by the time the check has cleared, they have already make back their money.

$5 is not even a slap on the wrist for LDSinc.

Wasn't it 100 billion a few years ago?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mormon ... 1581138011

Why is it down to 35 billion? Stock crash? Bad investing?

What I have read is that $35B is the amount they have in US based stock market securities. Basically just what the SEC has jurisdiction over. That does not cover foreign based securities, or thing not traded in the stock market like land.

That is just one part of the $157 Billion total in the fund.

I thought they had more.

157000000000/16000000 members, so ever man, woman, and child has $9812? Not too bad

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:21 am http://openargs.com/wp-content/uploads ... -Final.pdf

Wow, that PDF is like the equivalent of CES letter, pairs up nicely I'd say.

This fine is interesting because it has little to do with the rottenness of what the church leadership is doing.

The fine was related to making sure investors had accurate information about the market. Essentially the church's investment portfolio was so large that they could influence the market and other investors have a right to know that so they can invest accordingly.

But church leaders weren't hiding their investments to try to manipulate stock prices. They were hiding the money to manipulate members, their customers. It was part of a lie to those who trusted them and looked to them as prophets of God. So that they could continue to tell the same stories to believers about how tithing helps. So that members would remember when the church was poor and really needed their money and not realize that wasn't the case anymore. Church leaders were trying to keep members from realizing that the church doesn't need their money.

It's fraud. And there will be no justice. And many of the defrauded will be their most ardent defenders.

RFM did a 1 minute episode about how this opens the door to lawsuits against the church that can't be dodged using the 1st amendment. The church admitted that it hid financial information from members out of concern that they would stop paying tithing if they knew. They paid tithing in ignorance of the hidden information. That is fraud for financial gain and people might have good legal grounds to get their tithing back.

https://radiofreemormon.org/2023/02/rad ... suit-idea/

It would make for a pretty interesting class action suit, don't you think?

Q: Will general knowledge about the church's vast wealth make LDS missionaries kidnapping targets?

I saw this on another forum. Thought it was brilliant: So if a person creates 13 aliases under which they commit all their sinning, can they still get a Temple recommend in their actual name?

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:44 pm I saw this on another forum. Thought it was brilliant: So if a person creates 13 aliases under which they commit all their sinning, can they still get a Temple recommend in their actual name?

Why not just lie? It’s the same thing.