NOM

Hermey wrote:I highly doubt this represents their entire income from the Church or any other entities it owns or controls. If there is anything that they are good at, it is playing the game of hiding the money and the associated paper trail. They have an army of experts they employ to use the accounting rules, procedures and tax code to legally accomplish it. And just because it's legal doesn't mean it's ethical. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just fooling themselves.

I agree Hermey. I don't care that they get paid. I don't care how much they get paid. I only care that they claim to be unpaid servants entitled to a modest stipend and then hide the information from the people who actually donate money.

Full disclose and 100% transparency. That's what I care about. The church needs to own it. Until they do, they aren't getting another dime from me.

Considering that the median household income in Utah is $62,912 according to the 2015 US Census data, hopefully this coverage will get people talking about what is considered a "modest living allowance."

Church leaders basically have three sources of income.

1. Salary/"Modest living allowance."
2. Church covered living expenses (Rent/mortgage, utilities, food, household expenses, tuition, travel, gifts, cleaning/ gardening, etc.)
3. Other incomes like salary for serving on various corporate boards, book deals, media payments etc.

#2 Alone will cover almost all living expenses, so that the church salary alone is entirely free and clear. A $120K salary is a LOT larger if you don't have to pay any bills out of it.

Once you factor in ALL the benefits, I suspect that that modest living allowance will be well over $1/4 M, maybe even close to $1/2M. When you faster in all benefits, they are going to have a very hard time claiming it is modest.

Hermey wrote:I highly doubt this represents their entire income from the Church or any other entities it owns or controls. If there is anything that they are good at, it is playing the game of hiding the money and the associated paper trail. They have an army of experts they employ to use the accounting rules, procedures and tax code to legally accomplish it. And just because it's legal doesn't mean it's ethical. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just fooling themselves.

Agree

We know from the mission pres handbook that they get all their kids higher education paid for, any school of their choosing. Hagoth mentioned gifts and other expenses. Now imagine what all that adds up to over a year. Imagine all your living and transportation expenses are paid for in addition to kids education, medical, gifts for weddings and birthday's etc.; even if your salary is only $80-100k-ish, it's just a big huge bonus check...right?

It still boils down to non-transparency - that's the ultimate rub!

RubinHighlander wrote:It still boils down to non-transparency - that's the ultimate rub!

Yep, their Plausibly Deniable PR statements like: "All the GA's and 70's get the same living allowance" and "None of it comes from tithing" are a complete joke.

Prove it.

Publish your financials.

Otherwise; you're continuing to be dishonest, just as you have been in the past. It's obvious you have something to hide.

I agree Hermey. I don't care that they get paid. I don't care how much they get paid. I only care that they claim to be unpaid servants entitled to a modest stipend and then hide the information from the people who actually donate money.

Full disclose and 100% transparency. That's what I care about. The church needs to own it. Until they do, they aren't getting another dime from me.

It really wouldn't bother you, if their living allowance turned out to be in the millions? It would me. Let's say they are 100% transparent, and with everything totaled up they make 1.2 million each, would you feel better about paying your tithing?

LostMormon wrote:

I agree Hermey. I don't care that they get paid. I don't care how much they get paid. I only care that they claim to be unpaid servants entitled to a modest stipend and then hide the information from the people who actually donate money.

Full disclose and 100% transparency. That's what I care about. The church needs to own it. Until they do, they aren't getting another dime from me.

It really wouldn't bother you, if their living allowance turned out to be in the millions? It would me. Let's say they are 100% transparent, and with everything totaled up they make 1.2 million each, would you feel better about paying your tithing?

It wouldn't bother me one bit if they were each paid $5 million if they were 100% transparent. You know why? Because then I would know what they were paid and could make a conscious decision to pay or not pay to support the church.
If I didn't agree then I wouldn't pay but at least I would have informed consent.

I know this is easy to do and say as a non believer because my bank account already broke up with the church and it's tithing slip years ago!

For me it's not a money issue regarding pay but rather an integrity and transparency issue. People should be upset because the church is institutionally dishonest. Not because some mid level executive makes $120K a year.

Red Ryder wrote:

LostMormon wrote:

I agree Hermey. I don't care that they get paid. I don't care how much they get paid. I only care that they claim to be unpaid servants entitled to a modest stipend and then hide the information from the people who actually donate money.

Full disclose and 100% transparency. That's what I care about. The church needs to own it. Until they do, they aren't getting another dime from me.

It really wouldn't bother you, if their living allowance turned out to be in the millions? It would me. Let's say they are 100% transparent, and with everything totaled up they make 1.2 million each, would you feel better about paying your tithing?

It wouldn't bother me one bit if they were each paid $5 million if they were 100% transparent. You know why? Because then I would know what they were paid and could make a conscious decision to pay or not pay to support the church.
If I didn't agree then I wouldn't pay but at least I would have informed consent.

I know this is easy to do and say as a non believer because my bank account already broke up with the church and it's tithing slip years ago!

For me it's not a money issue regarding pay but rather an integrity and transparency issue. People should be upset because the church is institutionally dishonest. Not because some mid level executive makes $120K a year.

I'm with RR on this. If they got paid $5MM and the church was transparent I would be delighted. It would cause such an uproar. I wish my bank account and the church tithing slip had broken up a lot sooner than it did, but what can you do. Now, I only donate enough to feel like we help pay our share of local building maintenance.