NOM

alas wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:00 am So, there is more difference than just that you can tell the difference. But I thought you understood that real hallucinations are a sign of mental illness.

Sorry Alas, I'll try to stop joking with you and go back to part of my original statement comparing dreams an hallucinations:

wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:18 pmAll of them are something that isn't real created by your mind.

So yes, dreams are normal, "real" hallucinations are not. But again: Both of them are something that is not "real," but created by the human mind, and humans shouldn't use dreams or hallucinations as a basis to make major life decisions, or something to "base their life on," or something to tell other people how to live their life, or something to start a religion with.

And I still haven't heard any voices. Maybe if I had, I could still be a believing MORmON?

wtfluff wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:02 am

alas wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:00 am So, there is more difference than just that you can tell the difference. But I thought you understood that real hallucinations are a sign of mental illness.

Sorry Alas, I'll try to stop joking with you and go back to part of my original statement comparing dreams an hallucinations:

wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:18 pmAll of them are something that isn't real created by your mind.

So yes, dreams are normal, "real" hallucinations are not. But again: Both of them are something that is not "real," but created by the human mind, and humans shouldn't use dreams or hallucinations as a basis to make major life decisions, or something to "base their life on," or something to tell other people how to live their life, or something to start a religion with.

And I still haven't heard any voices. Maybe if I had, I could still be a believing MORmON?

I'm going to put a different spin on my crazy experiences - none of those was a witness that the church was true - but they were helps.

Spiritual experiences - they could be real, could come from a larger, bigger place, they don't need to be attached to the church.

Angel wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:53 am Spiritual experiences - they could be real, could come from a larger, bigger place, they don't need to be attached to the church.

News flash: feeling warm tingles while watching a sunset does NOT confirm that Russell M. Nelson talks to God or that an angel delivered a gold book.

If more believing Mormons could bridge this mental gap it would really help reduce the arrogance of immediately dismissing everyone else's spiritual story. But it comes with the danger of weakening their emotional dependence on the church for all things spiritual.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:10 am

Angel wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:53 am Spiritual experiences - they could be real, could come from a larger, bigger place, they don't need to be attached to the church.

News flash: feeling warm tingles while watching a sunset does NOT confirm that Russell M. Nelson talks to God or that an angel delivered a gold book.

If more believing Mormons could bridge this mental gap it would really help reduce the arrogance of immediately dismissing everyone else's spiritual story. But it comes with the danger of weakening their emotional dependence on the church for all things spiritual.

If more ex-Mormons can also not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Keep the good, get rid of the bad. Wheat and tares.

Angel wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:35 am If more ex-Mormons can also not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Keep the good, get rid of the bad. Wheat and tares.

The problem is that the water is so murky it can be hard to tell whether there's even a baby in there.

Not voices but I use to have things pop in my head. Use to think they were some kind of message from beyond till they proved disastrous when I followed them.

My new relationship with such things is I ignore them. If you are an angel, demon, extra terrestrial, inter dimensional traveler, or God, show up and have a back and forth discussion with me. I would be glad to listen to what you have to say. But a fleeting voice or feeling means nothing. I will never be susceptible to making decisions on such things again.


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Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:08 pm

Angel wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:35 am If more ex-Mormons can also not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Keep the good, get rid of the bad. Wheat and tares.

The problem is that the water is so murky it can be hard to tell whether there's even a baby in there.

Muddy water is part of life, optimism is just helpful for a happier life is all.

Angel wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:35 amIf more ex-Mormons can also not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Keep the good, get rid of the bad. Wheat and tares.

So what parts of LD$-Inc. are baby/good that shouldn't be thrown out in your opinion Angel?

wtfluff wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:40 pm

Angel wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:35 amIf more ex-Mormons can also not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Keep the good, get rid of the bad. Wheat and tares.

So what parts of LD$-Inc. are baby/good that shouldn't be thrown out in your opinion Angel?

Friendships, general ideals of service, kindness, thrift, all that stuff that is common with most religious groups.
Leaving the church is like leaving high school, moving out of the house - like any transition in life. You look back, there are good and bad memories in all of it. Move on, it was part of your life, nothing is ever perfect, try to keep the good, just to be a happier person.

Angel wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:57 pm

wtfluff wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:40 pm

Angel wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:35 amIf more ex-Mormons can also not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Keep the good, get rid of the bad. Wheat and tares.

So what parts of LD$-Inc. are baby/good that shouldn't be thrown out in your opinion Angel?

Friendships, general ideals of service, kindness, thrift, all that stuff that is common with most religious groups.
Leaving the church is like leaving high school, moving out of the house - like any transition in life. You look back, there are good and bad memories in all of it. Move on, it was part of your life, nothing is ever perfect, try to keep the good, just to be a happier person.

I don’t consider things like friendship, thrift, kindness, service, to be Mormon at all. They are common human traits or virtues and Mormons didn’t invent them, or teach then, or encourage them any more than any other group. In fact, in many ways Mormons exhibit less of those common traits than your average atheist. Maybe my experience is worse than average, but I don’t think so. I think the church teaches people to attribute everything good with the church and everything bad to Satan or the individual. But, I think if the church is going to take credit for its volunteers, for it friendly people, for t giving and kind members, then t has to also take credit for the higher than average suicide rate in Utah, higher child abuse rate in Utah, higher depression rate in Utah, high rate of pyramid schemes and affinity fraud, high rate of judgmental jerks, and other problems it doesn’t want to draw attention to.

alas wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 1:32 pm

Angel wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:57 pm

wtfluff wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:40 pm

So what parts of LD$-Inc. are baby/good that shouldn't be thrown out in your opinion Angel?

Friendships, general ideals of service, kindness, thrift, all that stuff that is common with most religious groups.
Leaving the church is like leaving high school, moving out of the house - like any transition in life. You look back, there are good and bad memories in all of it. Move on, it was part of your life, nothing is ever perfect, try to keep the good, just to be a happier person.

I think the church teaches people to attribute everything good with the church ...

It's hard to separate wheat and tares for sure.

On the road, in a restaurant, any scenerio dealing with grumpy pushy sad people - I create my own stories for them, why they had a bad day - it helps me pity/empathize rather than hate.

That youtube of the guy who was cut off at Starbucks, then told them when ordering he wanted to pay for the jerk in front of them - to get their tab too. Just coffee, but the "jerk" breaks down in tears over kind act.

Be the change you want to see in the world. Genuine kindness can't be act, to be real, see yourself in them, and them within yourself - then treat them how you wanted to be treated and all that.

Applied lessons, for good or ill. See yourself in them and them in yourself - shared humanity - everything and everyone connected... those wise people in the East might be onto something.