NOM

hmb wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:09 am

græy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:52 am

hmb wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:30 am I'd like to hear about the "Earth Crystal."

I wonder how the second interview went? Do they still require an interview from the Stake Presidency to get the recommend?

This person spends all of church (and likely the rest of their 24/7 life) firmly holding this white crystal, which is the size of a large cucumber,

It's so difficult to not make some naughty comment. I'll behave. I will. I even changed my wording from "hard" to "difficult" (because I'm being good).

græy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:57 am Essentially they said they do sustain him but think that God is purposely "trying his people" by telling the prophet to tell us to do something we shouldn't obey, and that is the test. To see if we will do what is right even if we're told to do wrong by the prophet.

I just realized this is the big ugly door Mr. Holland opened with his Wrong Roads talk.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:33 am

græy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:57 am Essentially they said they do sustain him but think that God is purposely "trying his people" by telling the prophet to tell us to do something we shouldn't obey, and that is the test. To see if we will do what is right even if we're told to do wrong by the prophet.

I just realized this is the big ugly door Mr. Holland opened with his Wrong Roads talk.

It is! And it completely boggles my mind.

That talk essentially erased anyone's ability to differentiate between their own mistaken thoughts and a genuine answer from God. Because they're now exact same thing. If your own reasoned answer turns out wrong it was God giving you the wrong answer testing to see if you'd obey anyway. If it turns out right then it was God blessing you with inspiration and direction. It takes the mantra of "Damned if you do. Damned if you don't." and flips it inside out and on its head.

Anyone is now free to claim that God answered their prayers directing them to do either right or wrong and that they must obey because that is how God works.

How does this fit in with God not being able to lie. If he gives you a false directive as a test of loyalty and trust, is that not a mode of deception and lying? Then again, nearly every aspect of Mormon theology and history begs for the reality of the Trickster God.

Holland's god is the trickster god. He cannot be trusted. And members are trying to interpret whatever they feel as coming from that same god, as they have been taught. And the rest of us who see the faults of trusting someone who cannot be trusted have no ammunition to fire back against this belief because Holland went and built him into the general conference cannon.

græy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:42 amIt is! And it completely boggles my mind.

That talk essentially erased anyone's ability to differentiate between their own mistaken thoughts and a genuine answer from God. Because they're now exact same thing. If your own reasoned answer turns out wrong it was God giving you the wrong answer testing to see if you'd obey anyway. If it turns out right then it was God blessing you with inspiration and direction. It takes the mantra of "Damned if you do. Damned if you don't." and flips it inside out and on its head.

Anyone is now free to claim that God answered their prayers directing them to do either right or wrong and that they must obey because that is how God works.

How does this fit in with God not being able to lie. If he gives you a false directive as a test of loyalty and trust, is that not a mode of deception and lying? Then again, nearly every aspect of Mormon theology and history begs for the reality of the Trickster God.

Holland's god is the trickster god. He cannot be trusted. And members are trying to interpret whatever they feel as coming from that same god, as they have been taught. And the rest of us who see the faults of trusting someone who cannot be trusted have no ammunition to fire back against this belief because Holland went and built him into the general conference cannon.

Didn’t the same Trixster God command that one guy to sacrifice his son? Then stopped him last second?

The difficult (see what I did there Hagoth) part for me pre-awakening was thinking this was all normal. Same with Holland’s talk. Makes perfect sense.

Now that I don’t believe it exposes the silly nature of it all. Like Trixster God dropped his costume/mask for a second and I can’t unsee it.

One more thought on this part:

“graey” wrote: Anyone is now free to claim that God answered their prayers directing them to do either right or wrong and that they must obey because that is how God works.

Same idea with the temple. Free to claim they received personal revelation or other form of higher learning in the temple. Unleashing whatever they want to think because.... personal revelation!

The apostles are on the right track when they do not allow right-wing politics to deny science.