NOM

A lot has changed in the temple since then. They used to do initiatories naked in a bath tub. They also used to use sharp scissors to literally cut the markings of the garment into the breast skin of the person.

I'm up the vols. 11-12 (1867) in the Journal of Discourses, and wow, almost every talk either is about the Word of Wisdom or refers to it. Brigham tells his audience if the money spent on tobacco in the territory were spent on schools it would pay for all the schools in the territory. the sisters are told if they took the money spent on coffee and tea and gave it to the missionaries they too could help the Cause. Polygamy continues to be a topic, as does returning to Jackson County when the Lord says it's time. Tithing is mentioned, but that's a given. In fact it was interesting that the Word of Wisdom Sermons were often tied to monetary considerations.

deacon blues wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:40 pm I'm up the vols. 11-12 (1867) in the Journal of Discourses, and wow, almost every talk either is about the Word of Wisdom or refers to it. Brigham tells his audience if the money spent on tobacco in the territory were spent on schools it would pay for all the schools in the territory. the sisters are told if they took the money spent on coffee and tea and gave it to the missionaries they too could help the Cause. Polygamy continues to be a topic, as does returning to Jackson County when the Lord says it's time. Tithing is mentioned, but that's a given. In fact it was interesting that the Word of Wisdom Sermons were often tied to monetary considerations.

Did you catch if alcohol was thundered against by Brigham, considering he also owned a brewery? You mention tobacco and coffee/tea, but not alcohol here. That would be interesting to me if that was a cautious omission.

Sorry for my slow response. Brigham did mention alcohol but didn’t emphasize it. I had forgotten that Brigham had that little money making project.

JD vol. 17 has an interesting discourse by William Dumbar, given to the youth in Jan. 1874.

He says: "I am pleased when I hear a young man or young woman testify that they know this is the kingdom of God; but I should not be pleased to hear them testify that they did know if they did not; I should not be pleased to hear them say they believed if they did not believe. It might cost me sorrow to hear my son or my daughter, or your son or your daughter, say, "I do not know that 'Mormonism' is true," or "I do not believe it is true," or to see them in a kind of betwixt and between state of mind, not knowing what to believe; but at the same time I would rather they would honestly say just what is the fact, than to have them hypocritically say one thing and mean another."

I had 3 thoughts: This has changed. More recent Church leaders say: "The testimony is found in the bearing of it."

Second: I wonder if Bro. Dumbar-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_C._Dunbar-- jeopardized his chance to be an apostle when his leaders realized he was encouraging such honesty at the expense of the Church?

Third: Some things in the Church never Change- like bogus testimonies.

Excellent find deacon. I'm going to make this statement a part of my "quote book" that I'm putting together for future Mormon encounters.