NOM

Dressing up to attend church in a dingy building seems wrong. For years, the church buildings do not feel clean. I'm sure it's because the membership "volunteering" to clean is a lot of the reason it feels grimy throughout. Casual dress seems more fitting for the mediocre cleanliness of the buildings.

I'm thinking... If something crazy were to happen, and I actually started attending (regularly?) again and I didn't spontaneously combust when entering a building... If I decided to go casual with denim jeans, etc. and someone gave me any flack about it, that would just be my excuse to say: "Don't like the way I dress? It's cool, I'll leave" and promptly exit.

In Brazil you'd see many people in shorts and flip-flops. Nobody cared or judged you.

It's amazing how one church talk from a GA can blow up and all of a sudden everyone needs to start wearing the white shirt and tie. On my "want" list is a sweater for those rare occasions that I do have to suffer through SMs. I think sweaters are nice enough but yet show a little defiance. I remember when I used to be hypocritical and judgmental when people would show up with something other than a white shirt and tie.

slk wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:13 pm In Brazil you'd see many people in shorts and flip-flops. Nobody cared or judged you.

It's amazing how one church talk from a GA can blow up and all of a sudden everyone needs to start wearing the white shirt and tie. On my "want" list is a sweater for those rare occasions that I do have to suffer through SMs. I think sweaters are nice enough but yet show a little defiance. I remember when I used to be hypocritical and judgmental when people would show up with something other than a white shirt and tie.

Or, come to my husband’s ward during the summer in St Charles, Idaho. About half the people are dressed for vacation, well, because they are on vacation. If you don’t know where St Charles is, it is up by Bear Lake, and during the summer they run two sacrament meetings for the one ward so all the tourists can fit. Even with two sacrament meetings, they fill up the whole chapel and cultural hall. People come to church on their way to the beach. Yup, I suspect some of them have swim suits under shorts and T-shirt. No, I know some of them do because last time I went with family, my son, husband, and grandkids all had swim suits under their dresses or dress pants. The rest of us changed (the three adult ladies) at the state park restroom after church. Or you could go to the Garden City ward in Utah. Same thing.

The attitude is they would rather people come to church even if they are on vacation because they don’t have to. Well, I think none of us “have to” and they should just appreciate that we came.

Alas...Well, I'm sure I could have seen what you are describing. We spent a few days at an Airbnb in Paris Idaho this past summer. Sunday came and I went home. Mom and dad had to go sit in church...ugh. Hell, my oldest brother had to leave Saturday night because he said he could not find a sub for his class on Sunday. I got a laugh out of that! I love it how more people are turning down assignments.

It's what you wear in your heart that really matters.

Unfortunately most LDS wear fear.

I would think even if a god existed to care about why you were wearing what you were wearing we as humans aren't able to read minds. As soon as you tie clothing into piety it'll be used to judge people, so even if hypothetically some person might be better off spiritually dressing up a bit on sunday more harm than good is done by insisting you need to dress to some standard. It just breeds a pharisaical culture. Also, whenever you insist on respecting God through some ritual or other I think of some middle manager who has a superiority complex insisting on inane rituals to make sure his underleanings know he's above them. I don't find it a particularly attractive quality in a hypothetical god.

Dravin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:09 am More harm than good is done by insisting you need to dress to some standard. It just breeds a pharisaical culture.

This point deserved repeating.

Dravin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:09 am more harm than good is done by insisting you need to dress to some standard. It just breeds a pharisaical culture.

What if that's the desired outcome?

Also, whenever you insist on respecting God through some ritual or other I think of some middle manager who has a superiority complex insisting on inane rituals to make sure his [underings] know he's above them. I don't find it a particularly attractive quality in a hypothetical god.

That describes it exactly, but yeah, it has nothing to do with any god.

Jeffret wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:37 am

Dravin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:09 am more harm than good is done by insisting you need to dress to some standard. It just breeds a pharisaical culture.

What if that's the desired outcome?

Also, whenever you insist on respecting God through some ritual or other I think of some middle manager who has a superiority complex insisting on inane rituals to make sure his [underings] know he's above them. I don't find it a particularly attractive quality in a hypothetical god.

That describes it exactly, but yeah, it has nothing to do with any god.

What if that is the desired outcome? Good question. After a quick review of such doctrine as the one ear ring per ear, and other such attitudes as the fine line many draw between energy drinks and green tea, or herbal tea and prohibited tea, and the whole emphasis on obedience, I think that is the intended outcome. If they didn’t want Pharisees then why was Bedanar ever made an apostle?

And the middle managers do use “respect for God” to get exact obedience to what color tie the deacons can wear to pass the sacrament. Seriously, my son was told one week that his tie with Santa on it was not appropriate, and another time because his bright pink tie was inappropriate. This is with him wearing a white shirt, suit, with his military/missionary style hair cut. What is dictating clothing down to the appropriate color and subject matter of a neck tie if not encouraging the Pharisees.

The whole emphasis on obedience rather than love says they are trying to encourage rules and counting steps on the Sabbath, but their priorities are now more on clothing and WoW than on Sabbath.