NOM

I remember them saying back in the late 90's that it was Huntsman who was donating his jet(s) for church use. So this has been going on for several decades, if not much longer. Well before RMN came into power. Can't blame Wendy for starting it. However, I'm sure she is not fighting for the church to save the money.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:12 am Clothe the Naked - Yup with weird under wear

At their own expense. I cant believe I paid money for this...

Off Topic:

Palerider wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:46 amAren't Mormons famous for that "moderation in all things" saying??

Mormons like to "think" they are famous for that saying, and if I remember correctly, they like to associate it with D&C 89 / Word of Wisdom.

Actually: The word moderation doesn't even appear in D&C 89, and the origins of the "moderation in all things" statement seem to go back WAY before MORmONism was even part of Joseph's dreams...


Back to your regularly scheduled flight...

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:12 amYou mean he should be staying in a hay barn sleeping in a manger because Motel 6 had no vacancy.

Consiering some of the things that JSjr did the in the hay barn, the church probably both wants to avoid them at all costs and pend as much time there as possible...

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:12 amThere’s a lot of valid bitching and whining amongst the former TBM’s on the Internet. I just get tired of the “What would Jesus do” comparison to the church. It’s annoying when we’ve all figured out the obvious that the church doesn’t follow the teachings of Jesus yet we still complain as if we expect it to.

Well duh? The church is a billion dollar corporation and that’s what the executive leadership teams of billion dollar corporations do. They fly on private planes at the expense of their customers and shareholders.

Can we stop pretending like the church is actually a church and then complain when it doesn’t act like a church?

When LDSinc. claims to be a church, following the teaching of Jesus Christ, then I think you can expect them to follow the teachings they espouse and force their members to live up to. Or atleast the low level members who haven't bought their way into the higher levels of the organization.

Of course, when you are a business taking public money, I expect you to follow the laws and standards for such a business. Where do I go to get a copy of their 2018 FTC filing report that include all income, expenses, and compensation amounts to all upper management?

wtfluff wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:36 pm Off Topic:

Palerider wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:46 amAren't Mormons famous for that "moderation in all things" saying??

Mormons like to "think" they are famous for that saying, and if I remember correctly, they like to associate it with D&C 89 / Word of Wisdom.

Actually: The word moderation doesn't even appear in D&C 89, and the origins of the "moderation in all things" statement seem to go back WAY before MORmONism was even part of Joseph's dreams...


Back to your regularly scheduled flight...

Oh, I already figured it wasn't original to them but their famous for saying it ALOT....

It makes them sound so reasonable and mainstream....

Accidental double post

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:12 am You mean he should be staying in a hay barn sleeping in a manger because Motel 6 had no vacancy.

There’s a lot of valid bitching and whining amongst the former TBM’s on the Internet. I just get tired of the “What would Jesus do” comparison to the church. It’s annoying when we’ve all figured out the obvious that the church doesn’t follow the teachings of Jesus yet we still complain as if we expect it to.

Well duh? The church is a billion dollar corporation and that’s what the executive leadership teams of billion dollar corporations do. They fly on private planes at the expense of their customers and shareholders.

Can we stop pretending like the church is actually a church and then complain when it doesn’t act like a church?

Humanitarian - Nope
Honesty - Nope
Follow Jesus - Nope
Give to the poor - Nope
Feed the hungry - Nope
Clothe the Naked - Yup with weird under wear
Buy real estate - Yup
Stock portfolio - Yup
Hold fan boy conferences - yup
Travel the world - Yup
Vacation in Hawaii - Yup

Act like a church - don’t be silly!

There is a reason business executives fly on private planes beyond simple luxury. They want to create the proper appearance so that they are taken seriously as successful people. You would have to be unique to be able to fly in to a high level meeting in coach, stay at the Motel 6, and grab McDonald's on the way and still be able to interact with other successful people in a business environment.

So the church needs to use the same psychological ploys that secular institutions use in order to create the proper appearance. The leaders always told me that this was not necessary. The Spirit gives them authority, not worldly accouterments, I was told. Of course it's wrong. I still feel better calling them out on the absurdity of the successor to Elijah flying in a luxury plane. You're right, this is not a church, and it will never be able to act like one. I still reserve the right to bitch and whine.

It is important to think WWJD....what would Joseph do. If he were alive and prophet in this day and age, I would picture him to be like Hugh Hefner, boarding his private jet with 5-6 tall, blonde, 24-year old, well endowed (in the temple sort of way of course) wives. Several concubines would already be on the plane and more wives and concubines waiting at each destination.

Also, please note that there are two private jets for a reason. God Force 1 and God Force 2. One is a decoy to help protect against Satan. We all know that Satan controls the waters, but few know that Satan also controls the air, thus having a deception strategy assists in security operations.

blazerb wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:55 pm
There is a reason business executives fly on private planes beyond simple luxury. They want to create the proper appearance so that they are taken seriously as successful people.

So the church needs to use the same psychological ploys that secular institutions use in order to create the proper appearance.

Isn't this almost exactly what the Pharisees did in seeking out the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at the banquets?

To be seen of men as someone "important"?

Palerider wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:41 pm Isn't this almost exactly what the Pharisees did in seeking out the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at the banquets?

To be seen of men as someone "important"?

Absolutely. The private jets go along with the poofy red chairs and determining who stands first at the end of a meeting.

Palerider wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:41 pm

blazerb wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:55 pm
There is a reason business executives fly on private planes beyond simple luxury. They want to create the proper appearance so that they are taken seriously as successful people.

So the church needs to use the same psychological ploys that secular institutions use in order to create the proper appearance.

Isn't this almost exactly what the Pharisees did in seeking out the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at the banquets?

To be seen of men as someone "important"?

Yep. Their behavior is the polar opposite of what Christ taught.

However, it should be pointed out that Christ never said anything about the Pharisees making everyone else stand when they walked into a room, so that must be OK.

I thought it would be interesting to compare the travel habits of President Nelson to another religious leader, the Pope.

One would think that the Pope would have a much larger entourage, probably his own plane (the Catholic church does have its own country), and would need his own plane for security and ease of movement around crowds (the Roman Catholic church says they have 1.2 billion members, so just a few more than the LDS church).

Looking at multiple news sources, here is what I found:

1. The Pope / Catholic church doesn't own a plane
2. The Pope flies a regular commercial airline, usually Air Italia for the outbound leg and the national carrier from the country visited for the return leg
3. The Pope does get a special flight (the airlines book a flight special for the Pope that not just anyone can get on), but the plane isn't any different from what is normally used by the airline
4. The Pope gets a business class seat (or sometimes a whole business class row, depending on plane configuration)
5. The Pope gets a discounted rate from the airline (some say regular coach fare for a business class seat). The Pope's fare is subsidized by members of the press that wish to travel with the Pope. The press pays business class fare for coach seats, but in exchange get to travel with the Pope so they can cover any events.


I was pretty surprised to see how the Pope travels. It would be challenging for Nelson to do the same because I can't imagine there are that many reporters that would want to travel around with him. I do think the private jets for Nelson are more about looks and impressing people, but I'd bet that Nelson justifies it by claiming it is more efficient so he can visit more people.

Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:03 am The plane they were on is registered to Shortstop Jet Charter of Australia. Shortstop advertises themselves as:

Premium, luxurious jet charter services with the highest safety standards in Australia

We have no way of knowing whether the church paid directly, or someone paid on the church's behalf.

The inside of the Falcon 900C cabin looks very nice. While chartering flights from a smaller company based outside of Melbourne, Australia seems off the beaten path, it probably makes sense to the frequent flyers of the Church. Comfy travel in elegance. Would we want less for the messengers from God? I think not!!!

Is this the same charter service used for the current Latin America tour?

The Falcon 900C is a large business jet capable of accommodating 14 passengers and a flight attendant in a luxuriously appointed stand-up cabin. Features include dual passenger cabin zones, two divans which fold out into lie flatbeds, a full galley equipped with a Nespresso coffee machine and two lavatories. https://shortstop.com.au/our-aircraft/

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:30 am Anybody want to hazard a guess at the dollar value of this little outing, regardless of who was footing the bill?

I have zero ideas. Anyone else?

Blashyrkh wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:14 am Your looking at 4k to 8k for a midsized private jet per hour and 8500-12000 per flight hour for a full size private plane. Cost is usually calculated from wheels up to wheels down.

The flight time from SLC to Tonga via commercial airliner is 22 hours. Let's imagine cut that by 40% by chartering a private jet. For two jets your looking at about half a million just for the aircraft rental.

I keep remembering the church representative (can't remember who) telling the African saints that the church can't help them because we're not a wealthy organization. Even if this entire trip was donated by someone Pres. Nelson could have said, "thanks, but please give that money to help our poor members in Africa. I'll just fly first class." The truth is, of course, that the church could easily afford to rent those jets AND to help the African members.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:41 am

Blashyrkh wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:14 am Your looking at 4k to 8k for a midsized private jet per hour and 8500-12000 per flight hour for a full size private plane. Cost is usually calculated from wheels up to wheels down.

The flight time from SLC to Tonga via commercial airliner is 22 hours. Let's imagine cut that by 40% by chartering a private jet. For two jets your looking at about half a million just for the aircraft rental.

I keep remembering the church representative (can't remember who) telling the African saints that the church can't help them because we're not a wealthy organization. Even if this entire trip was donated by someone Pres. Nelson could have said, "thanks, but please give that money to help our poor members in Africa. I'll just fly first class." The truth is, of course, that the church could easily afford to rent those jets AND to help the African members.

Actually, most modern long haul commercial airliners can fly quite a bit faster than smaller business jets.

Distance from SLC to Tonga is 13,500 miles. A Boeing 757 has a cruising speed of 0.8 Mach (613 MPH) while a Leerjet 45 has a cursing speed of 0.66 Mach (510 MPH). The Boeing cam make the trip in 22 hrs. The Leerjet will take 26.5. So add about 17% to your flight cost.

I was thinking in terms of connections and layovers, but it sounds the speed difference more than makes up for it. When you add all of the supporting cast and incidentals we might be looking at something leaning in the direction of million. That better have been a double-plus good spiritual experience for those folks in Tonga.

Ho-lee crap!

Thanks for the info, .Blashyrkh.