NOM

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:06 pm#Apologetics101

That definitely is a very nice "Apologist Hat" you have there Cowboy!

(But even if it doesn't work, they should still be parading it around. )

Gotta love the “See, we don’t hide this! We just released a YouTube video. We are completely transparent!!!” vibe this “Now You Know” video exudes. Here’s the deal, Mormon Church, you don’t get to hide things from your members for a couple hundred years and then pat yourself on the back for being transparent when you finally come clean about it once it’s out there and everyone knows about it. When a young missionary lies about having had sex with his girlfriend and breaks down under the pressure in the MTC and confesses, Mormon Church, you don’t hail him a a noble hero, do you? You send him home in shame and disgrace. Seems to me, Mormon Church, you understand pretty well that lying and then telling the truth when you can’t lie anymore isn’t all that noble or praiseworthy.

But hey, we’re dealing with Church leadership who is now telling us they don’t know where they got the idea that missionaries should pressure converts to commit to baptism on the first discussion, as though tens of thousands of missionaries spontaneously got the same idea about it without any direction from their leaders.

It is an attempt to make using a rock in a hat sound normal. But we all know it is just an occult practice.

Stolen from that other angry site...

"there has been no attempt on the part, in any way, of the Church leaders trying to hide anything from anybody"

Edit: For reference, Ensign - February 2001

I wish they would try to correlate the method use of the seer stones with that of the Urim and Thummim in the Bible. You did not look at the Urim and Thummim of the the Bible in the dark like a crystal ball. They appear to be more like a pair of dice that produced a binary yes/no answer. In Samuel we read how a request was made to the sacred stones, “If the fault is in me or my son Jonathan, respond with Urim, but if the men of Israel are at fault, respond with Thummim” (Samuel 14:41). So, heads Urim, tales Thummim. The Urim and Thummim were more like tossed coins or dice.

"This European culture" they talk about in the video was also known as witchcraft.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:24 pm I wish they would try to correlate the method use of the seer stones with that of the Urim and Thummim in the Bible. You did not look at the Urim and Thummim of the the Bible in the dark like a crystal ball. They appear to be more like a pair of dice that produced a binary yes/no answer. In Samuel we read how a request was made to the sacred stones, “If the fault is in me or my son Jonathan, respond with Urim, but if the men of Israel are at fault, respond with Thummim” (Samuel 14:41). So, heads Urim, tales Thummim. The Urim and Thummim were more like tossed coins or dice.

That's just it -- the Urim and Thummim is NOTHING like what JS claimed the seer stone to be.

And even then they never used the phrase U&T to describe anything until WW Phelps used it in 1832(?). And we all know why -- it gave a biblical credibility to something that was otherwise used in folk magic or occult practices.

And normalizing treasure digging is stunning to me... with that logic is Ms Cleo decided to start a religion Mormons would deem that OK because a lot of people claimed to be psychics on TV, right?