A place to love and accept the people who think about and live Mormonism on their own terms.
https://tranzatec.net/
You said it MUCH better than I could Fifi. Almost 5 months to the day for me. The words that my fingers want to type don't belong here on NOM, I guess I'll need to vent those on "some other" message board.Fifi de la Vergne wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 9:39 am It's been just over a month since I stood outside and greeted my son and his new bride as they exited the temple, from a wedding that I was excluded from.
I am, of course, SO GLAD that this will no longer have to be the experience of non-member or inactive family members going forward. But I don't have words for the outrage and anger I have over the unnecessary pain and hurt of all of us who've already gone through it. (Did you know there is literally such a thing as "seeing red"? Until today I thought it was figurative). I'm so DONE with this organization -- was any explanation or apology or anything offered to accompany this announcement? As I said, I approve the change, but I'm physically shaking with anger over all that's been taken from me by this So-Called Church.
The conspiracy theorist inside me thinks that this is also part of the reason for the change. This makes it much easier for LD$-Inc. to completely get out of the civil wedding business at some point in the future, so the absolutely never, ever, ever, ever "have to" perform a gay wedding in their creepy building. (I'm pretty sure there's no way to "force" them to do it, but I do think they fear it...)
I wonder if the wedding dresses will become less garment approved as well. Wedding first, endowments and sealing later that week. The uber TBMs wouldn't do that, but the less uber ones may.AllieOop wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 8:25 amI also wonder how this will be presented to the youth. I think at first, it'll still be emphasized that they only marry in the temple. But I honestly believe over time, it will become very appealing and acceptable for youth to have a beautiful wedding (where they can be walked down the aisle, bridesmaids and groomsmen, groom watching, etc.....and not have to cover their beautiful wedding gown with masonic garb....and so on) and then go later to get sealed.Corsair wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 8:18 am I will grant that this is good news overall. It also reduces the need for me to maintain a temple recommend for my one child most likely to get married in the temple.
I'm sure that the full temple marriage will continue to be the gold standard for Mormonism. But this will avoid a lot of hurt feelings when a convert gets married and excludes their family from the ceremony. They can still have the ceremony and just do a formal sealing later on. My next interest is how this will be relayed to the youth. I will probably be the bad guy to bring this up in my ward.
I'm really hoping this will be the norm by the time my grandkids get married.
***************************
The smart kids will do the creepy LD$-Inc. ceremony AFTER the honeymoon. (GARMENT-FREE HONEYMOON FTW!!!)Linked wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:12 am Fifi and WTFluff, that is so frustrating. I'm sorry the church causes such personal pain.
I wonder if the wedding dresses will become less garment approved as well. Wedding first, endowments and sealing later that week. The uber TBMs wouldn't do that, but the less uber ones may.AllieOop wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 8:25 amI also wonder how this will be presented to the youth. I think at first, it'll still be emphasized that they only marry in the temple. But I honestly believe over time, it will become very appealing and acceptable for youth to have a beautiful wedding (where they can be walked down the aisle, bridesmaids and groomsmen, groom watching, etc.....and not have to cover their beautiful wedding gown with masonic garb....and so on) and then go later to get sealed.Corsair wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 8:18 am I will grant that this is good news overall. It also reduces the need for me to maintain a temple recommend for my one child most likely to get married in the temple.
I'm sure that the full temple marriage will continue to be the gold standard for Mormonism. But this will avoid a lot of hurt feelings when a convert gets married and excludes their family from the ceremony. They can still have the ceremony and just do a formal sealing later on. My next interest is how this will be relayed to the youth. I will probably be the bad guy to bring this up in my ward.
I'm really hoping this will be the norm by the time my grandkids get married.
***************************
ETA - Ninja'd by MoPag
Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 9:41 amAnd this is exactly why it took so long to make the change.
They know that people, particularly millennials, are not bowing the knee anymore, and they are reluctantly giving up their control mechanisms one at a time in an attempt to stop the bleeding. I think it's a day late and a dollar short, like the temple changes, but I too grant this is a good change.
You know who I feel bad for? Recently a new convert I know proposed to his girlfriend of several years after his one-year wait period, and low and behold, today there is no wait period. That poor dude.
slavereeno wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 9:42 am This is good news. DW said the church is making it easier to leave the church.
And you know what? That would be the ideal, both from the church's perspective and from the couple's. There are so many sad stories of bishops who performed the civil ceremony but took the occasion to shame the couple for not marrying in the temple first . . . the church should emphasize the fact that a civil wedding and a temple sealing are two completely different things. The civil ceremony is an occasion for loud laughter and celebration and rejoicing, while the sealing can be a reverent, spiritual event. Win:win.
Happily, she's not wrong.slavereeno wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 9:42 am This is good news. DW said the church is making it easier to leave the church.
Fifi de la Vergne wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 9:39 am It's been just over a month since I stood outside and greeted my son and his new bride as they exited the temple, from a wedding that I was excluded from.
I am, of course, SO GLAD that this will no longer have to be the experience of non-member or inactive family members going forward. But I don't have words for the outrage and anger I have over the unnecessary pain and hurt of all of us who've already gone through it. (Did you know there is literally such a thing as "seeing red"? Until today I thought it was figurative). I'm so DONE with this organization -- was any explanation or apology or anything offered to accompany this announcement? As I said, I approve the change, but I'm physically shaking with anger over all that's been taken from me by this So-Called Church.
I wanted to add that I feel for you Fifi and Fluff. This is the reason why the church NEEDS to issue apologies. They harm, and they just don't care until it starts to harm their image or revenue.
BillReel
12 points ·
1 hour ago
FYI as a reminder (asterisk next to means it is already happened or showing significant signs)
Changes allegedly being discussed at present inside the Church Office Building
These changes are being discussed which means some will happen and some won’t. Some will likely happen in the next year or two and others will trickle in over the next decade or two. Also simply discussing these compels the Church to push them back
Church trying to make room for members to partake of Coffee and Tea
Having the Garment worn inside the temple only
* 3. To revamp the Missionary system making Service Missions and/or Local Missions prominent
4. Decentralize the financial responsibilities of the Church geographically.
5. Women will be given significant increased roles (Women giving blessings to be formally seen as approved), recent change for Mothers of Young Children to serve as ordinance workers for example of a small change heading that direction.
*6. Increase dramatically in visible charitable giving to outside charities and outside humanitarian efforts
7. Changes to the office/mode of operation of Patriarch being discussed
8. Heavenly Mother will be given a significantly increased role in the conversation and theology within correlated Mormonism.
9. Significant changes made to ensure Bishops and Stake Presidents receive significant training. (Anything from multiple weeks of in-depth training to even a full-time trained clergy in regards to Bishops and Stake Presidents)
* 10. RS General Presidency continually has its visibility increased and effort made to add value to their voices and the voice of women. (while maintaining the top 15’s own authority and nepotism to ultimately lead the Church)
11. Create a group of women that would act similarly to the quorums of Seventy (travel and be involved in committees and have a voice in decision making at levels lower than the top 15)
12. Age for women going on missions to be lowered to 18 as well or men moved back up to 19 to make them equal in this regard.
* 13. Separate Marriages from Sealing to allow a couple to be married publicly and sealed immediately afterward in a separate act.
14. Additional Policy adjustments to protect the Church’s public image in Sex abuse cases.
15. Your going to see further adjustments to the scriptures to remove sections of language from the D&C, heading etc. and or add in language to headings ect. to confront the growing evidence against the former claims of the Church and a growing discomfort with our overreaching.
16. The Ward Library and the calling of Librarian eliminated in areas that have quality access to technology.
17. Adjust callings that have room to not require Priesthood to allow for female leadership (Ex: Sunday School Presidency)
18. Do away with or control who speaks in Fast and Testimony Meeting
19. Allow equivalent aged Girls to pass the Sacrament where the congregation lacks adequate priesthood.
20. Remove multiple cultural boundaries imposed as Mormonism but which are acknowledged as American culture and unnecessary. (Ex: allowing a wider range of instruments used in Church meetings)
* 21. A New Handbook of instruction is coming
22. Temple Recommend bar-codes will be connected to a photo so the uses of recommends by someone other than who the recommend belongs to can be thwarted.
23. Young Adult/Older Teen service Projects away from home that give a young member a significant experience making the world better but also connected directly to the Church. A mini service mission per say
* 24. There are now concrete discussions occurring asking how we move towards more inclusivity towards LGBTQ members.
I hate the conspiracy theory part of this, but I saw a few people joking this weekend that the church would make some news to drown out the Vice story and then this pops up.Not Buying It wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:32 am If you'll forgive the link to Reddit, someone there suggests this was a way of diverting press from the Vice News story, and I think there is something to that:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... teresting/
I wonder how many mores scandals until we get coffee?jfro18 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:48 amI hate the conspiracy theory part of this, but I saw a few people joking this weekend that the church would make some news to drown out the Vice story and then this pops up.Not Buying It wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:32 am If you'll forgive the link to Reddit, someone there suggests this was a way of diverting press from the Vice News story, and I think there is something to that:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... teresting/
Pretty crazy either way... who knows I guess.
I agree. I work in healthcare and everything is metric, but few other areas in the US are. It is the church that has been holding back on the entire USA moving to the metric system /sMeilingkie wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:05 am Finally!
Now time to start pushing for the USA to follow the world by going metric
Agree. I noticed the coffeemaker I picked out that was in my Amazon shopping cart prior to conference is now on my wish list.MoPag wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:54 amI wonder how many mores scandals until we get coffee?jfro18 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:48 amI hate the conspiracy theory part of this, but I saw a few people joking this weekend that the church would make some news to drown out the Vice story and then this pops up.Not Buying It wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:32 am If you'll forgive the link to Reddit, someone there suggests this was a way of diverting press from the Vice News story, and I think there is something to that:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... teresting/
Pretty crazy either way... who knows I guess.
We are going to need a lot of new scandals coming to light for LDS leadership to do something about everything on this list. It sure seems suspcious that the "civil marriage waiting period" was removed right after that crazy Vice story went public. If the institutional church would systematically remove "one on one interviews with sexual questions" they would avoid a lot of future scandals.Not Buying It wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:41 am For those who haven't seen it, this change is on Bill Reel's list (see https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... elson_fix/), apparently they are ready to whip one of these babies out any time they are in danger of a major negative story in the press:
BillReel
12 points ·
1 hour ago
FYI as a reminder (asterisk next to means it is already happened or showing significant signs)