NOM

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:01 pm

wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:34 pm

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:16 pmThe revelation was short lived because we learned the necessary things God intended.

And what "necessary things" have been learned?

I'm not going to out my TBM hat on to answer this. It doesn't fit and I tossed it.

However, FB comments so far are following this line of thinking:

God commanded Abraham to kill his son Isaac. Then changed his mind at the last second. Sometimes he uses children to teach us lessons.

WTF is that kind of thinking?????

RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:31 pm How many suicides were there, directly related to the policy "revelation" change 4 years ago? Unlike the imaginary Isaac or the kids burned in the BOM there were REAL people that died because of those Fd up old rich homophobic COBlers!!! Keep grasping apologetic TBMs, but you ain't got nothing that will work here.

crossmyheart wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:49 pm

RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:31 pm How many suicides were there, directly related to the policy "revelation" change 4 years ago? Unlike the imaginary Isaac or the kids burned in the BOM there were REAL people that died because of those Fd up old rich homophobic COBlers!!! Keep grasping apologetic TBMs, but you ain't got nothing that will work here.

You know what needs to go viral? Is a list of all of the names of people who took their lives because of this revelation.

crossmyheart wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:49 pm

RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:31 pm How many suicides were there, directly related to the policy "revelation" change 4 years ago? Unlike the imaginary Isaac or the kids burned in the BOM there were REAL people that died because of those Fd up old rich homophobic COBlers!!! Keep grasping apologetic TBMs, but you ain't got nothing that will work here.

You know what needs to go viral? Is a list of all of the names of people who took their lives because of this revelation.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:17 pm Is there any evidence or data that shows a suicide directly tied to the policy?

The church has hated on gay people long before the policy excluded children of gay parents from getting baptized.

Never mind. I'm not advocating the idea that the policy caused anyone to directly commit suicide so need to call for evidence. Indirectly yes, based on the bad treatment from the church leaders and the history of hate directly from the mouth of Oaks et el.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:17 pm I f'ing hate this church for the pain and suffering experienced by anyone hurt in the name of fake Jesus and fake revelation! Fnck Oaks, Nelson, and all of the other fake prophets and apostles.

I haven't had much time to contemplate this today and it's just starting to sink in.

We all have suffered some form of PTSD for believing in this church. I'm so done.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:05 am In an internet world, you can't just hope no one remembers what you said in the past, because this is what President Nelson said in February 2016:

https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php? ... type=cmsid

That led to the Utah-based faith's new policy regarding same-sex Mormon couples — that they would be labeled "apostates" and that their children would not be allowed baptism and other LDS religious rites until they turn 18.

"Each of us during that sacred moment felt a spiritual confirmation," Nelson, next in line for the Mormon presidency, told the faith's young adults in the first official explanation of the hotly debated policy's origins. "It was our privilege as apostles to sustain what had been revealed to President Monson."

Nelson explained that revelation from the Lord to his servants is a sacred process.

"The [three-member] First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles counsel together and share all the Lord has directed us to understand and to feel, individually and collectively," he said. "And then, we watch the Lord move upon the president of the church to proclaim the Lord's will."

Whatever. God sure has a hard time making his mind up about things sometimes. Maybe he got one of his late night revelatory scribbles mixed up or something.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:01 pm

wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:34 pm

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:16 pmThe revelation was short lived because we learned the necessary things God intended.

And what "necessary things" have been learned?

I'm not going to out my TBM hat on to answer this. It doesn't fit and I tossed it.

However, FB comments so far are following this line of thinking:

God commanded Abraham to kill his son Isaac. Then changed his mind at the last second. Sometimes he uses children to teach us lessons.

WTF is that kind of thinking?????

jfro18 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:22 pm

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:17 pm Is there any evidence or data that shows a suicide directly tied to the policy?

The church has hated on gay people long before the policy excluded children of gay parents from getting baptized.

Never mind. I'm not advocating the idea that the policy caused anyone to directly commit suicide so need to call for evidence. Indirectly yes, based on the bad treatment from the church leaders and the history of hate directly from the mouth of Oaks et el.

My thoughts are along those lines - you're not going to find a stat that says "23 people committed suicide over this policy," but you had better believe it played a role in many of them. We could see that just in the stories that have come out over the last 3 years of gay members (esp teens) taking their lives and the increasing stress that policy put on them.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:17 pm I f'ing hate this church for the pain and suffering experienced by anyone hurt in the name of fake Jesus and fake revelation! Fnck Oaks, Nelson, and all of the other fake prophets and apostles.

I haven't had much time to contemplate this today and it's just starting to sink in.

We all have suffered some form of PTSD for believing in this church. I'm so done.

Yep. The name change stuff was annoying mostly because so many giddily proclaimed it revelation. This one is angering to no end because it caused real harm and stress in many people's lives and FOR NOTHING. How anyone could defend and celebrate it is beyond me.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:17 pm We all have suffered some form of PTSD for believing in this church. I'm so done.

MoPag wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:26 am Mormon Stories did a great podcast on it last night. I didn't catch all of it, (and I can't link it because I'm at work) But I would highly recompensed listening. It's heartbreaking to listen to the people whose lives have been really screwed up by all of this, but it also really helped me process things.

alas wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:42 am So, instead of being excommunicated for apostasy, married gays will simply be excommunicated for fornication.

Corsair wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:08 am

alas wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:42 am So, instead of being excommunicated for apostasy, married gays will simply be excommunicated for fornication.

This would be setting a trap for themselves for ostensibly unrelated reasons. Part of the apologetic defense of Joseph Smith's polygamy is that he did not consumate most(?) of the marriages, and certainly not the polyandrous ones. The CES Letter Reply from Stallion Cornell is certainly one of many that simply says we do not have firm evidence that Joseph had sex with his wives. He did not have children with anyone but Emma, after all. Marriage does not imply sex, apparently.

So now I'm waiting for some gay couple to use this line on a zealous bishop. "Can you prove that we are living an immoral lifestyle? Maybe we are just roommates who happen to have these foster children..."

Corsair wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:08 am

alas wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:42 am So, instead of being excommunicated for apostasy, married gays will simply be excommunicated for fornication.

This would be setting a trap for themselves for ostensibly unrelated reasons. Part of the apologetic defense of Joseph Smith's polygamy is that he did not consumate most(?) of the marriages, and certainly not the polyandrous ones. The CES Letter Reply from Stallion Cornell is certainly one of many that simply says we do not have firm evidence that Joseph had sex with his wives. He did not have children with anyone but Emma, after all. Marriage does not imply sex, apparently.

So now I'm waiting for some gay couple to use this line on a zealous bishop. "Can you prove that we are living an immoral lifestyle? Maybe we are just roommates who happen to have these foster children..."

While we still consider such a marriage to be a serious transgression, it will not be treated as apostasy for purposes of Church discipline.

Corsair wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:08 am

alas wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:42 am So, instead of being excommunicated for apostasy, married gays will simply be excommunicated for fornication.

This would be setting a trap for themselves for ostensibly unrelated reasons. Part of the apologetic defense of Joseph Smith's polygamy is that he did not consumate most(?) of the marriages, and certainly not the polyandrous ones. The CES Letter Reply from Stallion Cornell is certainly one of many that simply says we do not have firm evidence that Joseph had sex with his wives. He did not have children with anyone but Emma, after all. Marriage does not imply sex, apparently.

So now I'm waiting for some gay couple to use this line on a zealous bishop. "Can you prove that we are living an immoral lifestyle? Maybe we are just roommates who happen to have these foster children..."