NOM

SunbeltRed wrote:It was a very nice email. He did concede that some part of the article were problematic, and he could see why I felt the way I did. He talked about his siblings in a very kind and loving manner and said that if i ever left he may not agree but that doesn't mean we can't continue to be friends, talk, etc..

Was this article supposed to be "bringing his 'A' game" to the discussion? Most believers are entirely out of their league in these conversations, but they don't know that nor can they easily comprehend how that could possibly be.

SunbeltRed wrote:My HT responded to my email:

It was a very nice email. He did concede that some part of the article were problematic, and he could see why I felt the way I did. He talked about his siblings in a very kind and loving manner and said that if i ever left he may not agree but that doesn't mean we can't continue to be friends, talk, etc..

He was concerned, and kind, and introspective. I believe he responded as we all hope that someone would, understanding as best he is able, validating many points I made, while also in a very personal and non-judgmental way, affirming that his own faith has been valuable and hard won.

Thanks again for the help! I think we may have been able to open up some dialogue that may otherwise not have happened.

That sounds like a great step forward with him! I hope it really does open up the dialogue with him some more. I would love to have this kind of an interaction with someone in our ward.

Corsair wrote:Most believers are entirely out of their league in these conversations, but they don't know that nor can they easily comprehend how that could possibly be.

So very true, and in fact, the article is itself an excellent example.

All it says is doubt your doubts and no matter what, always ass/u/me the church is true. I mean literally, all the article does is insult doubters and non-believers by stating those with "wisdom, patience, intelligence" stay in the church and those that don't stay lack character and these fine character traits.

The message never changes. No substance, nothing for anyone to actually use or hold onto, just "the church is true, so when anything comes along to contradict that, or cause doubt, just remember the church is true and you'll be fine. And not only will you be fine, you'll prove to yourself and others that you have wisdom, intelligence, patience, etc, etc."

And this "they're really just leaving a cartoon caricature of the church they've created" is another excellent example....an excellent example of disingenuous, deceitful, bullsheet. Or am I somehow the one that came up with the idea that the reason we have Amerindians is because there were Lamanites? Am I the one that said the BoA was "the book of Abraham, written by his own hand upon papyrus"? So basically the church has stooped to the level of telling us that when we believed what it taught, we were really just believing a cartoon version of it, and the non-cartoon church never taught all that crap?!?

This stuff is Mopologetics at its finest. Blame the victim and insult their integrity and intelligence both early and often while you're at it!!

Corsair wrote:

SunbeltRed wrote:It was a very nice email. He did concede that some part of the article were problematic, and he could see why I felt the way I did. He talked about his siblings in a very kind and loving manner and said that if i ever left he may not agree but that doesn't mean we can't continue to be friends, talk, etc..

Was this article supposed to be "bringing his 'A' game" to the discussion? Most believers are entirely out of their league in these conversations, but they don't know that nor can they easily comprehend how that could possibly be.

I think that he thought it was bringing his A game, but I don't think he examined the article that closely, until I called him on some of the awfulness in it.

I don't think most Mormons know how to handle these conversations, which is why he is the only one to even approach some dialogue with me.