NOM

Palerider wrote: ↑Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:57 pm Which leads us to the Kirkland(?) temple vision where Joseph describes what he is seeing and Sidney Rigdon states, "I see the same." Then iirc, Sidney describes the vision he is seeing and then Joseph says, "I see the same."

Palerider wrote: ↑Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:57 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:11 am It can also be done either sincerely or deceptively and there's no way of disputing it. In fact it can be made to look even more genuine if another believer or accomplice claims to understand the gibberish.

Which leads us to the Kirkland(?) temple vision where Joseph describes what he is seeing and Sidney Rigdon states, "I see the same." Then iirc, Sidney describes the vision he is seeing and then Joseph says, "I see the same."

Well isn't that just a classic setup for an unverifiable phenomenon that would reel in a trusting but gullible audience?

I say, take the two of them into two separate rooms where they can have the vision on a day when they don't know it's happening and have them pray to receive the same vision, you know like Nephi and his father, Lehi, and then describe the vision to another church member in the room with them. Then those two church members can come out of the rooms and tell the visions to see if they match.

I know, sounds complex and picayune but how gullible must one be to believe it the way they did do it?

RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:39 am

Palerider wrote: ↑Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:57 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:11 am It can also be done either sincerely or deceptively and there's no way of disputing it. In fact it can be made to look even more genuine if another believer or accomplice claims to understand the gibberish.

Which leads us to the Kirkland(?) temple vision where Joseph describes what he is seeing and Sidney Rigdon states, "I see the same." Then iirc, Sidney describes the vision he is seeing and then Joseph says, "I see the same."

Well isn't that just a classic setup for an unverifiable phenomenon that would reel in a trusting but gullible audience?

I say, take the two of them into two separate rooms where they can have the vision on a day when they don't know it's happening and have them pray to receive the same vision, you know like Nephi and his father, Lehi, and then describe the vision to another church member in the room with them. Then those two church members can come out of the rooms and tell the visions to see if they match.

I know, sounds complex and picayune but how gullible must one be to believe it the way they did do it?

I'd also like to have had them both drug tested. I'm guessing there was more than just alcohol in that wine.

"Martha, what do I see? I see my porridge on the table."

"I see the same. Hector, what do I see? I see that it is getting cold."

"I see the same, Martha."

RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:39 am I'd also like to have had them both drug tested. I'm guessing there was more than just alcohol in that wine.

During the whole time not a word was spoken by any other person. Not a sound nor motion made by anyone but Joseph and Sidney, and it seemed to me that they never moved a joint or limb during the time I was there, which I think was over an hour, and to the end of the vision. Joseph sat firmly and calmly all the time in the midst of a magnificent glory, but Sidney sat limp and pale, apparently as limber as a rag, observing which, Joseph remarked, smilingly, “Sidney is not used to it as I am.”