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Re: 20% of missionaries coming home early
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:00 pm
by 2bizE
Some thoughts:
1) Why not a summer service mission. College let’s out on April and starts back up in Aug/Sept. why not allow them to do a service mission during this time.
2) When I served a mission, it seems most missionaries were going to other countries. With the increase in missionaries, I don’t see an increase in assignments outside of US. Why not?
3) It is much easier to leave the mission early if you are in the US or your same country. The MP kept my passport in an office safe. Would have been hard to just leave without a passport.
4) Does serving for two years improve your faithfulness in the church rather than serving for one year? I doubt there are statistics because nobody serves for one year, but I believe if a missionary knew he/she could take only one year off college and serve, it would be much easier to stay as a missionary.
5) I liked my mission and don’t have many regrets. The only regret I have is following the rules too strictly. I was the most successful when we did bend the rules because we were teaching so many people. Started to sleep in because we were exhausted.
Re: 20% of missionaries coming home early
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:08 am
by Not Buying It
Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:18 am
Mahonri,...my heart goes out to you. I understand. I remember going into the worst depression of my life during my mission experience. We were told by a GA that our mission (I was in the Brisbane Australia mission after a massive crack-down) was the strictest in the world. We weren't to leave our apartment unless we were in our whites, and we didn't have a dinner....we had a breakfast and a late lunch as our policy.
I have an interesting story for you. In our mission, we were gunna have a sacrifice month where we showed the Lord we were serious--we were gunna exercise that extra level of faith and "call down the blessings of heaven". So, for one month, this was the policy:
1. Cut down the lunch/dinner from 1 hour to 45 min.
2. Cut 4 hours off PD and proselytize.
3. Stay out working until 9pm each night.
4. Challenge challenge challenge for baptism.
Guess what happened? We had the highest baptisms ever that month, for perhaps the last 5 years. And then after that month, the baptisms dropped off to the lowest levels ever, such that the net gain was negative as the result of that crazy month.
Phillip Sontag, the current GA 70, was furious when he heard what we did. He said: "They are working hard enough! You DON'T NEED TO TRY TO KILL THEM!"
Go figure. Thus is the cult mentality......
I'm so glad none of my children will serve missions. There are some good mission presidents out there. There are some real wack jobs. Some love and care for their elders and sisters. Some see it as their audition as a spot as a General Authority and will run their elders and sisters into the ground in an attempt to make the grade. It is such a crap shoot, with the lives of young, impressionable, vulnerable men and women hanging in the balance.
No loving God would set up a program as capricious, careless, and poorly administered as the current missionary program. I got through my two years OK, but I know people who weren't so lucky. And luck is all it was.
Re: 20% of missionaries coming home early
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:53 pm
by Rob4Hope
Not Buying It wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:08 am
Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:18 am
Mahonri,...my heart goes out to you. I understand. I remember going into the worst depression of my life during my mission experience. We were told by a GA that our mission (I was in the Brisbane Australia mission after a massive crack-down) was the strictest in the world. We weren't to leave our apartment unless we were in our whites, and we didn't have a dinner....we had a breakfast and a late lunch as our policy.
I have an interesting story for you. In our mission, we were gunna have a sacrifice month where we showed the Lord we were serious--we were gunna exercise that extra level of faith and "call down the blessings of heaven". So, for one month, this was the policy:
1. Cut down the lunch/dinner from 1 hour to 45 min.
2. Cut 4 hours off PD and proselytize.
3. Stay out working until 9pm each night.
4. Challenge challenge challenge for baptism.
Guess what happened? We had the highest baptisms ever that month, for perhaps the last 5 years. And then after that month, the baptisms dropped off to the lowest levels ever, such that the net gain was negative as the result of that crazy month.
Phillip Sontag, the current GA 70, was furious when he heard what we did. He said: "They are working hard enough! You DON'T NEED TO TRY TO KILL THEM!"
Go figure. Thus is the cult mentality......
I'm so glad none of my children will serve missions. There are some good mission presidents out there. There are some real wack jobs. Some love and care for their elders and sisters. Some see it as their audition as a spot as a General Authority and will run their elders and sisters into the ground in an attempt to make the grade. It is such a crap shoot, with the lives of young, impressionable, vulnerable men and women hanging in the balance.
No loving God would set up a program as capricious, careless, and poorly administered as the current missionary program. I got through my two years OK, but I know people who weren't so lucky. And luck is all it was.
The scriptures became the weapon used to destroy--would you believe that?--and I'm talking about destroying the Elders and Sisters. Its called a "contraposition". In Alma it says, if you repent, have faith and pray continually, you will bring thousands to repentance. The contraposition goes like this....if you aren't bringing thousands to repentance, you are not exercising faith, repentance, and prayer. Basically, it's that you are not worthy.
We were taught that the Book of Mormon WAS THE MOST CORRECT OF ANY BOOK ON EARTH! The book gave a formula...worthiness equaled baptisms. And the ONLY Possible conclusion is if you arn't baptising, you are not worthy.
In my mission, the average was 1/2 baptism per mission. Half the missionaries went home "dry".
"What a bunch of slackard worthless souls! Why can't they just repent and get a clue!"....(the attitude of many of the righteous few like the assistants).
It never occured to me that the Book of Mormon was toxic itself. Go figure. I was right into the cult ....
Re: 20% of missionaries coming home early
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:00 am
by nibbler
20% seems implausibly high.
Is that what people are seeing in their wards/stakes? 1 in 5 missionaries coming home early?
Re: 20% of missionaries coming home early
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:02 am
by nibbler
2bizE wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:00 pm
2) When I served a mission, it seems most missionaries were going to other countries. With the increase in missionaries, I don’t see an increase in assignments outside of US. Why not?
My guess is that countries have a finite number of visas that they are willing to give to missionaries. Once the visas quotas are met, they're met.
Re: 20% of missionaries coming home early
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:13 am
by RubinHighlander
Here's a good example of the horrible public shaming that is still happening with some TBM families of early returners:
I know this kid, and he's top notch, although in his teens he got a steady girl and the hormones got the best of him. He had sex but didn't reveal it until several months into his mission, the endless interviews and guilt finally caught up with him and he confessed. MP sent him home. The boy's father made him call all of the immediate family members and explain to them why he was sent home early. He was really broken up about this and every call was a tearful agonizing mess! I'm not sure how it went down in his local ward, but I can't imagine. He father was really hard core and part of the problem is the shame on the family name as well. I can't help but think of the story of the woman they were about the stone when Jesus stepped in and laid it down for them. Where is the love of Christ in this early return story? To the kid's credit, he still married in the temple and is doing well, but I wonder of the emotional scars and burden he carries; I hope he escapes mormonism someday and can get that crap off his back.
Re: 20% of missionaries coming home early
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:34 am
by Unendowed
nibbler wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:00 am
20% seems implausibly high.
Is that what people are seeing in their wards/stakes? 1 in 5 missionaries coming home early?
That number is very plausible in fact it seems low to me. It used to be such a rarity to see a missionary home early it really stood out. Now it happens so often I don't think people give it a second thought. As this becomes more commonplace, the silver lining is the stigma around coming home early is becoming less and mental health issues are accepted as "legitimate" reasons to return home.
Re: 20% of missionaries coming home early
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:13 pm
by wtfluff
Unendowed wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:34 am
nibbler wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:00 am
20% seems implausibly high.
Is that what people are seeing in their wards/stakes? 1 in 5 missionaries coming home early?
That number is very plausible in fact it seems low to me. It used to be such a rarity to see a missionary home early it really stood out. Now it happens so often I don't think people give it a second thought. As this becomes more commonplace, the silver lining is the stigma around coming home early is becoming less and mental health issues are accepted as "legitimate" reasons to return home.
Here's some factual data from my small ~30-home cul-de-sac in the heart of the morcor: Of the
mormon kids in this neighborhood who are currently missionary age (and "should" be on missions) LESS THAN 20% of those kids are on missions.
Granted: Two of those families "apostatized" in the last few years, and one of the families "half-apostatized" (my family.) My misson-aged kid probably would have gone, but "life" got in the way (luckily in some ways, not-so-luckily in other ways...)
I'm honestly quite amazed at the above statistic, and I'm hopeful that it is a shadow of things to come for LDS-Inc.
Re: 20% of missionaries coming home early
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:44 pm
by Raylan Givens
I served in the heathen NW, where everyone is California transplants trying to hide in the trees. Church attendance overall was low. I had little success, but I did have a few join. I can't imagine serving now, 15 years later with the information available. No success would make me depressed, I would definitely think about ending it early.