NOM

Gotta love that good ol' "common consent" where you get booted for encouraging people to vote a certain way.

This is too good to not share across the interweb!

blazerb wrote: ↑Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:49 pm I am really trying to figure out what the church gains by excommunicating Sam rather than just ignoring him. Heck, why not cross the street to discuss the issue. TBM's don't care if that happens. They support the leaders' actions regardless. Non-members only care when there's a big spectacle. And a court of love is a spectacle that does nothing to enhance the image of the church.

Outside the church, excommunication is mostly meaningless. Nonmembers don't understand the emotional impact and theological implications. (Not that Sam cares about the latter. He's 100% a Jesus guy.) To them, it's mostly a non-event.

Inside the church, Sam's membership and former bishophood give him at least little pull. He's "one of us." But he's not exhibiting the most important in-group marker: loyalty. The Q15 can't have that disloyalty spreading. They would call it Satan's influence. I say their authority is tenuous and easily topples of people think too hard, and Sam is making people think harder.

So they'll remove him from the in-group. The fact that he's not showing loyalty won't matter after God (via his stake president) kicks him out.

I was on the phone with my sister when I saw the news. I think her shelf cracking was audible over the phone.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:39 pm I was on the phone with my sister when I saw the news. I think her shelf cracking was audible over the phone.

That's awesome.

That stuff I wrote about loyalty as an in-group marker only holds if members don't identify with Sam. If they do, it will feel like the church is excommunicating a part of them. They won't feel so much like "one of us." They'll start to wonder if their loyalty has been misplaced.

profit_seizer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:02 pm Gotta love that good ol' "common consent" where you get booted for encouraging people to vote a certain way.

^^^ I know; so much this!! What is the point of common consent if the option of voting opposed is considered apostasy? So ridiculous... why even ask if anyone is opposed? On the surface it appears to be honoring one's free agency, but look out!! It's a trap!!!

Sam's response should be, "I was offered 45 minutes to rebut these charges. I shall not waste that much of your evening.

I was taught in primary to try to be like Jesus. I sang the hymn in sacrament to that taught me to 'do what is right, let the consequences follow.' I have tried to do what Jesus taught by standing up for the little ones. I standby the instruction from Jesus in Matthew 18:6. You brethren have the legal right to cast me out of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. What you don't have is the moral imperative, nor the ethical high ground. You can do what I am pretty sure your leaders have instructed you to do this evening. Regardless of your vote or the outcome, I stand behind my actions. I stand with Jesus. Who do you stand with?"

So much like 1993, the Brethren all get back from their summer vacations and decide its time to go after dissidents. The September Six are only going to be the September One this time around, I guess Sam is the only on being a big enough pain in the butt to get their attention this time.

How can we support him? Angry emails to the Church office building? Angry letters to the Salt Lake Tribune? What can be done that has any chance of registering with the Brethren? Clearly the Church doesn’t give a flip about children, but they’ll take away the eternal family of someone who does. I just don’t know what to do about it that isn’t a wasted gesture.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:22 am So much like 1993, the Brethren all get back from their summer vacations and decide its time to go after dissidents. The September Six are only going to be the September One this time around, I guess Sam is the only on being a big enough pain in the butt to get their attention this time.

How can we support him? Angry emails to the Church office building? Angry letters to the Salt Lake Tribune? What can be done that has any chance of registering with the Brethren? Clearly the Church doesn’t give a flip about children, but they’ll take away the eternal family of someone who does. I just don’t know what to do about it that isn’t a wasted gesture.

We can

- click on links to major news outlets carrying the story
- share the story, wisely, with people who are likely to be upset by it.
- vote with our dollars and with our feet.

The most freeing part of my faith transition was realizing the church has zero real authority on my life. The most difficult is how much authority friends and family grant to the church over theirs.

Reuben wrote: ↑Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:02 am

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:39 pm I was on the phone with my sister when I saw the news. I think her shelf cracking was audible over the phone.

That's awesome.

That stuff I wrote about loyalty as an in-group marker only holds if members don't identify with Sam. If they do, it will feel like the church is excommunicating a part of them. They won't feel so much like "one of us." They'll start to wonder if their loyalty has been misplaced.

I agree.

I just listened to Gina Colvins latest podcast. Everything the attorney says is church procedure is what I've been telling my friends and family is happening in my ward and stake to protect my predator relative.


The church does not care about Sam, about children, or about you or I.

They care about
- their wealth
- their political influence
- their power and control

They protect predators and attack messengers and victims not because they identify with predators or agree with abuse, but because the number one concern is maintaining their wealth and power.

You can buy anything in this world with money.

Sam has always said that he supports the Q15 but it's the policy that he has a problem with. He has been very admirable the whole time. I'm hoping he'll get the same recognition and popularity as did JD after he got ex-d. At least he will have his family supporting him.

Deseret News just released a piece on Sam Young's impending excommunication. This article is very supportive of the institutional LDS church. One-on-one bishop interviews are defended as a critical part of the gospel development of members. Any possible problems that might arise from sexually explicit, on-on-one interview questions are simply defined away. They are setting up any problems to be impossible via the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

Here's one line that made me laugh out loud (emphasis added):

Tad Walch wrote:Young said Hruska warned him in January that his actions endangered his standing in the church, also often called the Mormon church.

It's like some apostate joker forced them at gunpoint to write this parody of a line describing the name of the church frequented by Russell M. Nelson.

The church has scheduled 15 minutes for their prosecution, Sam has 45 minutes for defense.

Anybody else willing to bet that the outcome is pre-determined?

Culper Jr. wrote: ↑Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:24 am

profit_seizer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:02 pm Gotta love that good ol' "common consent" where you get booted for encouraging people to vote a certain way.

^^^ I know; so much this!! What is the point of common consent if the option of voting opposed is considered apostasy? So ridiculous... why even ask if anyone is opposed? On the surface it appears to be honoring one's free agency, but look out!! It's a trap!!!

I noticed this too. The dog and pony show of consent in the church seems like a calculated evil. It has the form of democracy but it actually functions as an authoritarian tool. The top men can point to it and act like the voice of the masses matters, but if anyone actually votes opposed to anything they are immediately labeled as a weirdo at best and an apostate at worst by anyone who is there. It is far worse than not having it at all. It is another opportunity for TBMs to further tie their identity to the will of the leadership. It is evil.

Sam Young has committed the only unpardonable sin left in the Mormon church: publicly embarrassing upper church leadership.

That will not be tolerated.

You should all read Sam’s response to his disciplinary summons:

https://invisiblescubit.wordpress.com/2 ... n-summons/

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:42 pm You should all read Sam’s response to his disciplinary summons:

https://invisiblescubit.wordpress.com/2 ... n-summons/

Wow, talk about taking the high road. This should be posted as a separate thread imho.