NOM

dareka wrote: ↑Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:08 pm I'm happy to say that even when I was a true believer, I was never interested in visiting any of the church history sites. I always felt I got enough church on Sundays.

I think I would probably enjoy it more now. Church history is so much more interesting when you know something about what really happened and you have the option of running that narrative in your head alongside the whitewashed version. Branson Missouri, on the other hand, might be a real challenge for me.

moksha wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:34 am You would imagine she would be too old to stampede. Hope no one got injured in running the streets of Nauvoo.

Dolly Parton financed and owns the Stampede, but does not appear in the show except with a few recorded announcements. Plus, the event takes place in a large, climate controlled arena that imports special dirt to avoid dust. They have parts of the event that are lowered to the ground from the ceiling as well as large doors so that full covered wagons pulled by animals can come into the arena. It's a hagiography of the American West.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:19 am I think I would probably enjoy it more now. Church history is so much more interesting when you know something about what really happened and you have the option of running that narrative in your head alongside the whitewashed version. Branson Missouri, on the other hand, might be a real challenge for me.

If you like country music or classic rock and roll, then Branson would be very entertaining. Tribute bands are all over the place and there was a lot of talent on display. I was impressed to simply see how daily music shows are economically viable.

But in Nauvoo, the obvious history is staring at you but there is virtually no polite way to bring it up. It felt like being around a bunch of small children on Christmas trying to not tell them who really put out those presents. Other church sites similarly rely on you being polite enough to not mention certain aspects of the events. Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner is prominently mentioned in Independence for saving the manuscript for the Book of Commandments when the print shop was burned. She was mentioned a half dozen times, but never as a future wife of Joseph Smith. Eliza R. Snow, Patty Sessions, and Sylvia Lyon and others were important in Nauvoo, but never for their sealing to the prophet.

Corsair wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:39 am She was mentioned a half dozen times, but never as a future wife of Joseph Smith. Eliza R. Snow, Patty Sessions, and Sylvia Lyon and others were important in Nauvoo, but never for their sealing to the prophet.

Not all "little flecks of history" are equal and some facts are less useful than others. I hope you at least got to drink a beer at Joseph's bar in the Nauvoo House. Oh right, that's one of those less useful facts.

Corsair wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:39 am It felt like being around a bunch of small children on Christmas trying to not tell them who really put out those presents.

I was there recently (2016) and that is a spot on description of what it's like.

On the trail with all of the plaques with the stories of people as they left, one was for Zina Huntington Jacobs Smith Young. DW: "Wow, that's a lot of names!" Yup, it sure is.

We stayed at a B&B and one morning at breakfast there were several couples staying there who had served missions before in Nauvoo and were there for a reunion of sorts. You'd think they would know a bit more about the history. We were talking about the list Brigham Young gave the people of things they had to take with them as they fled Nauvoo, and one thing on the list was tobacco. "Oh, that was for the sick cattle," explained one of ladies at the table. Wow...

moksha wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:34 am ...or consecrating two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions, on a sesame-seed bun as a sacrificial offering on the altar of Adam-ondi-Ahman...

Can we please do this one day??

Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:58 am Congrats on getting the family to at least visit the CoC sites. Many don't want to visit sites that aren't owned by Salt Lake.

I went with my family when I was a young teen. My parents absolutely refused to go anywhere that wasn't owned and run by the church. It took me a while to work out why other religions would own something that is CLEARLY only LDS history. Parents gave me the impression they had stolen it from us like dirty rotten scoundrels when the saints were forced to leave. That really pumped up the persecution complex in my brain and made for some painfully awkward teen years growing up on the east coast.

As a TBM I yearned to take my TBM DH and children on a church history vacation and even had it all mapped out. Luckily, my shelf broke when my kids were little. Disney World is so much better!

moksha wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:34 am ...or consecrating two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions, on a sesame-seed bun as a sacrificial offering on the altar of Adam-ondi-Ahman...

Adam-ondi-Ahman is just weird. There's no altar there, just a vague marker that implies that the Second Coming will commence with a big meeting where Jesus will preside and totally show that the Mormon leadership has been right all along. Bring your Big Macs when you visit because there is no gift shop or food service.

I can, however, recommend that you have lunch at an Amish diner in Jamesport, Missouri which is only a few miles away. Their food was delicious.

crossmyheart wrote: ↑Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:46 am I went with my family when I was a young teen. My parents absolutely refused to go anywhere that wasn't owned and run by the church. It took me a while to work out why other religions would own something that is CLEARLY only LDS history. Parents gave me the impression they had stolen it from us like dirty rotten scoundrels when the saints were forced to leave. That really pumped up the persecution complex in my brain and made for some painfully awkward teen years growing up on the east coast.

The real problem is that the Community of Christ outright owns the Joseph Smith Mansion House, Red Brick Store, and the Smith Family Graveyard which includes the graves of Joseph, Hyrum, Emma, Joseph Sr., Lucy, and a couple others. The LDS church did finance some of the restoration efforts, a fact that was smugly mentioned by some of my travelling companions.

It's clear that the animosity is only in the hearts of devout, indignant Brighamites that visit. The CoC and the LDS church seem to get along pretty well all things considered. But I can only imagine what these would all look like if the LDS church did own all of these sites. The LDS visitor center is at the opposite end of old Nauvoo. I would have guessed the visitors center would be adjacent to Joseph Smith's property if they had that option.

Makes me want to donate 10% of my income to CoC for a while. I kind of hope they never get so desperate they sell off the remnants of what they own there. If the church owned it all, the gas lighting would be worse.

I don't imagine the CoC has the hundreds of billions the brighamites do, and once the price gets good enough...

nibbler wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:29 pm

Corsair wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:08 pm My in-laws just celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary and they wanted a trip to Nauvoo with all of their children and grandchildren. T

I have a question.

Is it pretty common for the grandparent generation to plan vacations to churchy spots so they can get all of their wayward (inactive) children and grandchildren to come together for something spiritual?

Example: "I just want to sit in the sacred grove together with the whole family, it's my lifelong dream."

My in-laws would definitely try this. I would decline their invitation. Sorry, nope. Not spending any more of my time or cash on it. I'm not judging anyone who would go, but I know what it would do to me.