sex sex...and more sex

[slavereeno]

Oh, how I wish it was portrayed this way in the temple film.

They cribbed Fantasia in the past, maybe they can crib The Magic School Bus in the future?

Is this some kind of car wash?

[LaMachina]

Agree. I like to think of this thread as demonstrating the absurdity of eternal gender roles.

Interesting. I agree that gender roles as defined generally, and certainly as defined by Mormonism, are absurd.

I wonder how all of this fits with "maleness" and "femaleness" though. If there is eternal life and I were to live it, if I were not "male" with some of its associated stereotypes, would I be "me"? And if I wasn't "me" what would be the point?

I've had this argument with TBMs before when it comes to homosexuality. Some believe that in the next life those who are faithful will have "SSA" taken from them and no longer have to deal with it. I ask would that individual still be themselves at that point?

Basically what I mean is, in regards to gender roles humanity has certainly tried to force square pegs in round holes for millennia. Yet, as a generally sexually dimorphic species, if we were to live after death and retain some semblance of who we are, wouldn't we continue to be sexually dimorphic? With all those associated "roles"?

[Rob4Hope]

Something that Radio Free Mormon and others have brought up over and over again-- Why can't the Q15 go to GOD and get some direct answers about this topic?

These sex ideas (SSA and other things not limited to this thread) create serious problems for LDS people. And the current (assumed) revelation doesn't address this stuff very well. For example, we have eunuchs in the NT who were "born that way". HUNH?

What sex are they?...I'm sure the apologists have answers. But the point I'm trying to make is why do the Q15 speculate and make policies without there being revelation? These guys fudge the line, but I don't know a single one who has come right out and said they got it from God.

I'm of the opinion that they don't have answers because THEY ARE FRAUDS!

[alas]

Something that Radio Free Mormon and others have brought up over and over again-- Why can't the Q15 go to GOD and get some direct answers about this topic?

These sex ideas (SSA and other things not limited to this thread) create serious problems for LDS people. And the current (assumed) revelation doesn't address this stuff very well. For example, we have eunuchs in the NT who were "born that way". HUNH?

What sex are they?...I'm sure the apologists have answers. But the point I'm trying to make is why do the Q15 speculate and make policies without there being revelation? These guys fudge the line, but I don't know a single one who has come right out and said they got it from God.

I'm of the opinion that they don't have answers because THEY ARE FRAUDS!

The eunuchs who were "born that way" in the Bible were usually men born with some medical situation that we could easily fix today, like his testicles did not descend and stayed up in the boys abdomen, thus damaging their ability to make sperm, and from just looking at him, you would not see a difference between men who had been castrated to make them eunuchs and guys with this common medical condition. Or they could have been intersex or androgen insensitive. But today doctors can correct a lot of these things.

What gets me about fixing so many problems like this, is the lack of these conditions has caused people's thinking to become more narrow and more binary. Doctors for years have been fixing children born with no genitals, or born with both. Too many people take for granted that these conditions never existed and had to be fixed by doctors. So, as a culture we have forgotten that sexual birth defects are really common and now many people can't imagine that transgender folk may have been exposed to the wrong hormone mix before they were born. Because of pre birth conditions, they were born with a body that does not fit them emotionally. People think external genitals are always binary, always. So, internal gender identity HAS to follow that always always binary. Packer especially with his "why would God do that to someone?" just couldn't imagine that people are born with all kinds of things and some like emotionally being one gender when their body is the opposite sex are just born that way.

So, these old white men are left with only their prejudices to guide them, because they don't know enough to know that they don't know enough.

[Rob4Hope]

Because of pre birth conditions, they were born with a body that does not fit them emotionally. People think external genitals are always binary, always. So, internal gender identity HAS to follow that always always binary. Packer especially with his "why would God do that to someone?" just couldn't imagine that people are born with all kinds of things and some like emotionally being one gender when their body is the opposite sex are just born that way.

I know a gay man who almost committed suicide multiple times BECAUSE of statements like this from Packer. Greg Prince referenced a document (and himself has commented) that GAs still hold to the idea that gay is a "choice". The old school in this situation doesn't change.

So, these old white men are left with only their prejudices to guide them, because they don't know enough to know that they don't know enough.

ALAS...you made my point. These men rely on their prejudices. And part of them not knowing enough is not knowing that they are "Prophets, Seers an Revelators". I don't want to know what they think...I want to know what GOD thinks about it. Since these GAs supposedly have the direct line to GOD about all things spiritual, why can't they go to GOD and ask?

if I recall, didn't an insistence that they do just that--go to GOD and ask--by Kate Kelly get the ball rolling for her as well in excommunication?

I know the answer to the question I just asked already. The reason they don't go to GOD an ask is because....<drum roll here>....THEY ARE FRAUDS!

[w2mz]

...the idea that we're literal children of the most powerful being in the universe, literally gods in embryo, is pretty powerful.

Or narcissistic. I could get on board possibly if everyone started with the same baseline.

I have a mentally disabled daughter, if I’m god, I don’t start some of my kids off at a disadvantage.

[LaMachina]

...the idea that we're literal children of the most powerful being in the universe, literally gods in embryo, is pretty powerful.

Or narcissistic. I could get on board possibly if everyone started with the same baseline.

I have a mentally disabled daughter, if I’m god, I don’t start some of my kids off at a disadvantage.

A totally fair criticism. It's clear that this idea can exacerbate narcissistic tendencies. I shudder at some of my thoughts and actions as a young person because I thought I was "special".

I also feel I understand where you come from in regards to your child. I have a child who suffers from at times debilitating mental illness and if god were to appear before me I feel like I might give him two middle fingers and tell him to go kick rocks. No child should have that burden placed on them.

And yet, while I find many good ideas have potentially ugly sides it doesn't diminish their potential beauty. Like I've mentioned I find it reflected in our culture everywhere for good and for bad. What if god were one of us? The last shall be first? What if that weird green creature on that swamp planet were actually a powerful master? The idea that there is real, concrete divinity in all of us, including my struggling child, is powerful to me. While the world sometimes looks at her with pity or even disdain she has something important to share with the world that I never could precisely because she experiences the world differently than I do. She's as divine as anyone else.

Of course, these ideas are shared by many without quite the materialist version found in Mormonism but from my perspective, being raised in Mormonism, I have found it to reinforce that profundity that we and god share our DNA.

I very much understand the position that the Q15 are morons posing as god's anointed and that they have no answers. I very much understand the tendency to pick over these ideas and view them as the stupidest theology ever concocted. I do it all the time with many theologies! Yet I sometimes think we miss something beautiful when we do. And I include LDS inc in that as they try to sweep anything potentially unique about mormonism under the rug.

[alas]

...the idea that we're literal children of the most powerful being in the universe, literally gods in embryo, is pretty powerful.

Or narcissistic. I could get on board possibly if everyone started with the same baseline.

I have a mentally disabled daughter, if I’m god, I don’t start some of my kids off at a disadvantage.

A totally fair criticism. It's clear that this idea can exacerbate narcissistic tendencies. I shudder at some of my thoughts and actions as a young person because I thought I was "special".

I also feel I understand where you come from in regards to your child. I have a child who suffers from at times debilitating mental illness and if god were to appear before me I feel like I might give him two middle fingers and tell him to go kick rocks. No child should have that burden placed on them.

And yet, while I find many good ideas have potentially ugly sides it doesn't diminish their potential beauty. Like I've mentioned I find it reflected in our culture everywhere for good and for bad. What if god were one of us? The last shall be first? What if that weird green creature on that swamp planet were actually a powerful master? The idea that there is real, concrete divinity in all of us, including my struggling child, is powerful to me. While the world sometimes looks at her with pity or even disdain she has something important to share with the world that I never could precisely because she experiences the world differently than I do. She's as divine as anyone else.

Of course, these ideas are shared by many without quite the materialist version found in Mormonism but from my perspective, being raised in Mormonism, I have found it to reinforce that profundity that we and god share our DNA.

I very much understand the position that the Q15 are morons posing as god's anointed and that they have no answers. I very much understand the tendency to pick over these ideas and view them as the stupidest theology ever concocted. I do it all the time with many theologies! Yet I sometimes think we miss something beautiful when we do. And I include LDS inc in that as they try to sweep anything potentially unique about mormonism under the rug.

This is beautiful about the divinity in your struggling child, and you point out how "I am a child of God" can be uplifting and humbling or appallingly arrogant

But even without Mormonism's "I am literally a child of God." There were problems with being "God's special creation given dominion over the earth." This belief shows up in the Bible and has been used to abuse the earth, the other animals, and even our fellow humans.

If we are using either belief to love others, it is good. But when we use either belief in arrogance they both become toxic.

I also have a "why would God do that to a child?" Kind of child. She is on the autism spectrum, dyslexic, ADD, and lesbian. So not your neurotypical child. But brilliant. So, I believe that God gives us trials to overcome, but, come on, this life test is anything but fair. If pres Nelson is our version of righteousness, then the test is way way rigged in his favor. If he had been dyslexic, no way could he have been a heart surgeon, get left and right confused and cut left through the aorta instead of right and patient dies. Or ADD, the fourth time during surgery that he loses track of what he is doing and patient dies. Does he KNOW that this test was rigged in his favor? Probably not. Yet the arrogant #}{#%^^*%%# ) has the audacity to say my daughter is not good enough for his God????

Well let me tell him that MY God is going to whack him up the side of the head with a 2X4.