NOM

SWK: The whitening of Navajo kids deported to righteous white Mormon homes.

No one mentioned Zelph the White Lamanite, yet?!

Stig wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:36 am No one mentioned Zelph the White Lamanite, yet?!

Some close family members keep Zelph in mind in their studies of the Heartland model of Book of Mormon geography. This has led to purchasing some astonishingly cheesy and conspiracy laden videos from Rod Meldrum.

Corsair wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:29 am

Stig wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:36 am No one mentioned Zelph the White Lamanite, yet?!

Some close family members keep Zelph in mind in their studies of the Heartland model of Book of Mormon geography. This has led to purchasing some astonishingly cheesy and conspiracy laden videos from Rod Meldrum.

The blood oaths.

"Rather than do so I would suffer my life to be taken."

Stig wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:36 am No one mentioned Zelph the White Lamanite, yet?!

I don't consider that a whopper that the church has ever officially told because it's one of those things that's so wacky they just want it swept under the rug and forgotten. That was one that I really struggled with. In fact, it's what led me to a desperate spoken out loud prayer begging for God to tell me that Joseph was really a prophet. And guess what I got? A massive textbook example of Stupor Of Thought®.

We're the only church that teaches about eternal families.

One my mission trainer perpetuated, which caused me a lot of cognitive dissonance: Elder, how else would Mary get pregnant?

If you're spiritually prepared, you'll learn something new every time you attend the temple.

The doctrine has never changed because the truth of God is eternal.

I forgot a personal favorite: We're not a fundamentalist religion.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:38 pm

Stig wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:36 am No one mentioned Zelph the White Lamanite, yet?!

I don't consider that a whopper that the church has ever officially told because it's one of those things that's so wacky they just want it swept under the rug and forgotten. That was one that I really struggled with. In fact, it's what led me to a desperate spoken out loud prayer begging for God to tell me that Joseph was really a prophet. And guess what I got? A massive textbook example of Stupor Of Thought®.

I don't know, it's right there in Roberts' History of the Church and it happened during the whole ZIon's Camp nonsense. It may get glossed over, but it's certainly there for the taking.

Your family will be together for eternity.

On the surface this is such a simple and beautiful concept. But when you take just a few seconds to ask yourself what happens when your kids get married and have kids of their own, or who your parents think will be in their family, or who your spouse's parents think will be in their family... It all falls apart. The apologetic is "we're all sealed together as one big family," but that is really the same as no family at all. We're right back to the same societal organizations we had in the preexistence before there were any families, except that most of the people we love probably didn't make it back, or we ourselves didn't.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:29 pm Your family will be together for eternity.

Mormonism the only religion that says you can't be with your family forever!!

Unless the brethren perform a temple ceremony where they give permission to God for your family to be together.

A few odd things about family sealings:

• Joseph Smith was never sealed to his parents or children during his lifetime. Family sealings during Joseph Smiths life meant baptism or baptism for the dead so that your loved ones would be sealed up to God in heaven and could be with you.

• The original Law of Adoption during Joseph Smith's lifetime was about baptism being used to seal men up to be Sons of God.

• The concept of sealings to other people such as your family members or other men did not exist until Brigham Young and in the Utah period (except for marriages).

• There are no canonized revelations anywhere in the scriptures requiring a temple sealing or authorizing / requiring the church to perform family sealings! There is the Joseph F Smith 1900s vision / dream of the redemption of the dead through temple work where family sealings are mentioned. But this was not canonized until the 1980s when I was on my mission. It is not a revelation requiring or authorizing the church to perform family sealings in order to be together forever.

Sealings to other men (Law of Adoption) seems to have been to prove loyality to Brigham Young during the leadership crisis after Joseph Smith was killed. Later when this was being phased out (since it was weird) it had to be replaced with an equivalent temple ceremony and family sealings came into existence, with no revelation supporting it in anyway.

The coffin canes.
There were canes made out of the coffins JS and Hyrum were placed in. Locks of JS hair were placed in the cap of the cane. They were used to perform special blessings...
This church gets creepier every day...


https://www.josephsmithjr.org/index.php ... ffin-canes

I will have to go find the source but I read just this week about an apostle sending his handkerchief to someone who needed to be healed. The gist of it being that he had imbued said hanky with the power of the priesthood and on receiving it, the person was healed. I'd better go find the story.

Here we go.

1865
19 Feb., first counselor Heber C. Kimball testifies of healing people with his special handkerchief, cane, and cloak.

1897
4 Aug., Lorenzo Snow tells apostles: “Patriarch Joseph Smith, the father of the Prophet, had stated in his [1836] patriarchal blessing, that he should have power, when not able to visit the sick, to send his handkerchief to them, and that the afflicted by touching it should be made whole.” Snow adds “on one occasion” a Mormon in Kaysville, Utah, “was healed immediately upon receipt of the handkerchief.”

1942
Church Section emphasizes use of handkerchiefs to heal people at great distances, with photograph of “the silk handkerchief blessed and sent by President Lorenzo Snow to Elder [Jacob Charles] Jensen” to heal him in 1899.

Do you think the magic hankies are in the vault?

el-asherah wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:58 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:29 pm Your family will be together for eternity.

Mormonism the only religion that says you can't be with your family forever!!

Unless the brethren perform a temple ceremony where they give permission to God for your family to be together.

A few odd things about family sealings:

• Joseph Smith was never sealed to his parents or children during his lifetime. Family sealings during Joseph Smiths life meant baptism or baptism for the dead so that your loved ones would be sealed up to God in heaven and could be with you.

• The original Law of Adoption during Joseph Smith's lifetime was about baptism being used to seal men up to be Sons of God.

• The concept of sealings to other people such as your family members or other men did not exist until Brigham Young and in the Utah period (except for marriages).

• There are no canonized revelations anywhere in the scriptures requiring a temple sealing or authorizing / requiring the church to perform family sealings! There is the Joseph F Smith 1900s vision / dream of the redemption of the dead through temple work where family sealings are mentioned. But this was not canonized until the 1980s when I was on my mission. It is not a revelation requiring or authorizing the church to perform family sealings in order to be together forever.

Sealings to other men (Law of Adoption) seems to have been to prove loyality to Brigham Young during the leadership crisis after Joseph Smith was killed. Later when this was being phased out (since it was weird) it had to be replaced with an equivalent temple ceremony and family sealings came into existence, with no revelation supporting it in anyway.

This is all fascinating stuff that I did not know. Thanks el-asherah!

el-asherah wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:58 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:29 pm Your family will be together for eternity.

Mormonism the only religion that says you can't be with your family forever!!

Unless the brethren perform a temple ceremony where they give permission to God for your family to be together.

A few odd things about family sealings:

• Joseph Smith was never sealed to his parents or children during his lifetime. Family sealings during Joseph Smiths life meant baptism or baptism for the dead so that your loved ones would be sealed up to God in heaven and could be with you.

• The original Law of Adoption during Joseph Smith's lifetime was about baptism being used to seal men up to be Sons of God.

• The concept of sealings to other people such as your family members or other men did not exist until Brigham Young and in the Utah period (except for marriages).

• There are no canonized revelations anywhere in the scriptures requiring a temple sealing or authorizing / requiring the church to perform family sealings! There is the Joseph F Smith 1900s vision / dream of the redemption of the dead through temple work where family sealings are mentioned. But this was not canonized until the 1980s when I was on my mission. It is not a revelation requiring or authorizing the church to perform family sealings in order to be together forever.

Sealings to other men (Law of Adoption) seems to have been to prove loyality to Brigham Young during the leadership crisis after Joseph Smith was killed. Later when this was being phased out (since it was weird) it had to be replaced with an equivalent temple ceremony and family sealings came into existence, with no revelation supporting it in anyway.

I think in the early days of the church they thought that a small handful of them would become Gods and the rest of us would be their adoring minions. Their children would never become Gods in their own right, but would remain under them, adding to God Brigham's kingdom. And the men adopted under would also be their subjects.

At least several things said by Brigham seemed very narcissistic, that he thought that only a select few would make Goodhood and of course he included himself. But his children and his children's children would be his to populate his planets with. They would not progress to Goodhood, but would add to his eternal increase. That was why he emphasized having so many children, to add to your eternal increase, and why he adopted adult men as his sons. It was all about his own personal kingdom. And all his progenitor would be his personal subjects.

So, what about the magic stone? It’s first picture was released in Aug or Sept 2016. It has been hidden in the Q15 vault for how long?
Contrary to Oaks and Ballard, they have been hiding this nugget for some time. Do you think they have attempted to use it?

2bizE wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:56 am So, what about the magic stone? It’s first picture was released in Aug or Sept 2016. It has been hidden in the Q15 vault for how long?
Contrary to Oaks and Ballard, they have been hiding this nugget for some time. Do you think they have attempted to use it?

That's a good point. We don't have the gold plates or sword of Laban or even the "original" Urim and/or Thummim. But we do have Joseph's seer stone that was used to translate the Book of Mormon. There are some obvious questions that have not been asked publicly. This includes "Does it still work now?" Has any current prophet or apostle (or seer, revelator) tried to use it. Did it work? If yes, what did you see? If not, why not?

I predict that the apologetic is that this is Joseph's seer stone and it won't work for anyone else. It must be nice to have a large staff of volunteers to keep moving those goalposts.

We existed for ages with God and we knew his plan and accepted it. Then we are born and have a relatively very short time to prove ourselves. If i mess up and dont repent im sent away from god who is my dad, never to see him again. Then i continue to live forever.

That entire concept just does not resonate with me. In fact, if the concept is true, my dad is a jackass and i dont want to be around him anyway.

I don't know if its been mentioned yet, but I miss the 2 year food supply.

DANG!...I had mine almost done!,...then they changed it down to 3 months or something. I haven't heard it mentioned for a LONG time now. I guess its really gone.