NOM

nibbler wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:23 am Just like with a business, the numbers are down - what are you going to do to bring them up?

Short of an EMP that takes out the world wide web, there's absolutely nothing they can do.

StarbucksMom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:42 pm So is it just me, or does 240k convert baptisms last year seem like a high number? I was actually surprised to read it was this many. I know Africa is busy, but that's alot. And we know they didn't come from US/Europe/Japan- industrialized nations.

Corsair wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:19 pm
I can only imagine the focus groups working on the next catchy T-Shirt slogan they need to get in front of the youth.

Bapterize?

They also do everything they can to make the numbers sound promising. Convert baptisms likely include 9 and 10 year old kids of members...hardly converts but they are counted as such. Reminds me of how they define ‘active member’ as anyone who attends sacrament once (I believe) a month.

didyoumythme wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:49 am They also do everything they can to make the numbers sound promising. Convert baptisms likely include 9 and 10 year old kids of members...hardly converts but they are counted as such. Reminds me of how they define ‘active member’ as anyone who attends sacrament once (I believe) a month.

When I was in the ward council we were instructed to count a person active if they attended once per quarter.

StarbucksMom wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:54 am Short of an EMP that takes out the world wide web, there's absolutely nothing they can do.

Wonder if physicists at Brigham Young University have been working out the details in creating a massive pulse generator?

StarbucksMom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:42 pm So is it just me, or does 240k convert baptisms last year seem like a high number? I was actually surprised to read it was this many. I know Africa is busy, but that's alot. And we know they didn't come from US/Europe/Japan- industrialized nations.

I bet they are spinning that somehow. Maybe they are counting the baptisms for the dead done in the temples in each mission.

Corsair wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:19 pm
I can only imagine the focus groups working on the next catchy T-Shirt slogan they need to get in front of the youth.

StarbucksMom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:42 pm Bapterize?

Bapterize!!! Brilliant!!!

slavereeno wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:08 pm When I was in the ward council we were instructed to count a person active if they attended once per quarter.

This is true. As a ward clerk I produced a quarterly report for church HQ that had a lot more data on it than is announced in the General Conference statistical report. In particular, we reported things that wouldn't normally show up because church classes do not take strict attendance. This included:

• average sacrament meeting attendance
• primary attendance
• priesthood and Relief Society attendance
• YM/YW attendance

In each of these cases I would go over the list of eligible members for these classes and determine if each person had attended "at least once" in the third month of the quarter for this report. As ward clerk you inevitably know the status of just about everyone in the ward, but I did inquire with auxilliary presidencies on occasion. The quarterly report also included the percentage of temple recommend holding adults, home/visiting teaching numbers, and a couple of stats about adult men without the Melchizedek priesthood.

It became clear that if you attended church only 4 times per year you could be considered fully active as long as the ward clerk noted your presence. Decisions about ward and stake boundary changes are made with this data and I'm certain that the church makes a lot of other policy decisions based on this data. Certainly the ward budget was calculated based on sacrament meeting attendance. I always like having a high profile mission farewell or homecoming during a stats month because it would positively contribute to next year's budget.

At Ward Conference yesterday, we were told to do two things: one was to pray that more active families would move into the ward, the other was.........you guessed it read the Book of Mormon. (In three months)

deacon blues wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:41 am At Ward Conference yesterday, we were told to do two things: one was to pray that more active families would move into the ward, the other was.........you guessed it read the Book of Mormon. (In three months)

Wouldn't it be interesting if you could find some correlation between people actually reading the entire Book of Mormon when challenged and those becoming inactive because of doubts created by reading it. Here's a fun way to leave the church. Take the next ward Book of Mormon reading challenge then go to the bishop and say, "Ok, I read the BoM as instructed and I came to the conclusion that it's a fraud. Here are my reasons..."

My mission was in Australia, and we did good for like 20 baptisms a month. But one of the things NOT showing up enough that I think is relevant, and was mentioned above, is the quality of the convert.

In my mission, most of the people...and I mean like 75%+, went inactive inside of 6 months of baptism. I remember going out on splits trying to find those who were baptised back in the "softball for baptisms" days, and some of these people didn't even know they were on the list. They had no contact with the church, didn't give a sh!t about religion, and wondered why we wouldn't just leave them alone. They didn't know who JS was, what the BoM was, etc.

But, you know the honest statistics department of the LDS church...right? Better count those folks because THEY were on the records of the church.

Yeh right....

Corsair wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:54 am

slavereeno wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:08 pm When I was in the ward council we were instructed to count a person active if they attended once per quarter.

This is true. As a ward clerk I produced a quarterly report for church HQ that had a lot more data on it than is announced in the General Conference statistical report. In particular, we reported things that wouldn't normally show up because church classes do not take strict attendance. This included:

• average sacrament meeting attendance
• primary attendance
• priesthood and Relief Society attendance
• YM/YW attendance

As a Sunday School President I found it interesting that Sunday School is not on that list. And I tried to figure out why the heck we kept a Sunday School role if it is not on the list. I decided it was so we could know who to "rescue". Then I stopped believing.

Linked wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:50 pm As a Sunday School President I found it interesting that Sunday School is not on that list. And I tried to figure out why the heck we kept a Sunday School role if it is not on the list. I decided it was so we could know who to "rescue". Then I stopped believing.

That is exactly right. It would take rather dedicated ward leadership to aggregate the attendance sheets of all classes and figure out who is not attending. This data is tainted by the usual crew who is enjoying second hour out in the hallways in uncorrelated, but often meaningful, conversation. The quarterly report does not address Sunday School. They simply assume that if you attend sacrament along with priesthood or Relief Society, you probably went to Sunday School

Maybe convert baptisms are down because Mormonism has already penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear...all that is left is for the great Jehovah to say the work is done.

Or maybe people are tired of Mormons and the message they share

I don't know if this is a strictly localized phenomenon, but at least in the heart of Zion where i barely survive my very TBM DW is noticing more and more seemingly active sisters are skipping relief society. Meanwhile, over at the the HP group where I am the secretary, the attendance is always near 90%. Don't quite know how to interpret this seemingly incongruous data. I don't believe any more, so I'm actually more interested in any sort of movement or subtle protest going on. (As in, "Sister Highandmighty offended several sisters when she went off topic and slut shamed several sisters in the ward who's porn shoulders were on full display for the elders to be tempted by. They felt out of place so they no longer attend RS"

When the numbers for church finance became embarrassing, they stopped reporting them. Why wouldn't they stop reporting membership statistics when they were not faith promoting?

JustHangingOn@57 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:10 pm I don't know if this is a strictly localized phenomenon, but at least in the heart of Zion where i barely survive my very TBM DW is noticing more and more seemingly active sisters are skipping relief society. Meanwhile, over at the the HP group where I am the secretary, the attendance is always near 90%. Don't quite know how to interpret this seemingly incongruous data. I don't believe any more, so I'm actually more interested in any sort of movement or subtle protest going on. (As in, "Sister Highandmighty offended several sisters when she went off topic and slut shamed several sisters in the ward who's porn shoulders were on full display for the elders to be tempted by. They felt out of place so they no longer attend RS"

There are reports on this sort of thing. It's all tracked.

Maybe the men get a boost because there are so many callings in the church that are specific to men so they have to be there on Sundays. The entire bishopric has to show up. The ward clerks are going to show up. The men have two PH quorums compared to the one RS group, meaning the men have (potentially) 8 dudes in the presidencies (president, two counselors, and a secretary) that probably feel the need to show up that hour whereas the women only have 4.

If the counselors teach lessons (people already obligated to attend) vs. groups where they call teachers in addition to counselors (new people to obligate).

I've heard many a lesson where men are told that they are under covenant to attend PH. It could be another contributing factor.

I'm grasping at straws trying to come up with a reason because one thing I consistently hear is that the RS has really good lessons while the EQ and HP take turns reading from the manual. I'd rather attend RS at this point just on the off chance that the lesson will be better, so it's odd that more sisters are skipping.

nibbler wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:37 pm

JustHangingOn@57 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:10 pm I don't know if this is a strictly localized phenomenon, but at least in the heart of Zion where i barely survive my very TBM DW is noticing more and more seemingly active sisters are skipping relief society. Meanwhile, over at the the HP group where I am the secretary, the attendance is always near 90%. Don't quite know how to interpret this seemingly incongruous data. I don't believe any more, so I'm actually more interested in any sort of movement or subtle protest going on. (As in, "Sister Highandmighty offended several sisters when she went off topic and slut shamed several sisters in the ward who's porn shoulders were on full display for the elders to be tempted by. They felt out of place so they no longer attend RS"

There are reports on this sort of thing. It's all tracked.

Maybe the men get a boost because there are so many callings in the church that are specific to men so they have to be there on Sundays. The entire bishopric has to show up. The ward clerks are going to show up. The men have two PH quorums compared to the one RS group, meaning the men have (potentially) 8 dudes in the presidencies (president, two counselors, and a secretary) that probably feel the need to show up that hour whereas the women only have 4.

If the counselors teach lessons (people already obligated to attend) vs. groups where they call teachers in addition to counselors (new people to obligate).

I've heard many a lesson where men are told that they are under covenant to attend PH. It could be another contributing factor.

I'm grasping at straws trying to come up with a reason because one thing I consistently hear is that the RS has really good lessons while the EQ and HP take turns reading from the manual. I'd rather attend RS at this point just on the off chance that the lesson will be better, so it's odd that more sisters are skipping.

I think one reason women skip RS where men attend their quorum is the lessons. Consider that for the last GKHM (God knows how many) years the lessons in RS have been all about the lives of men. It used to be that the lessons were written by women for women and were actually about things that interested women. Now the lessons are just more stuff that applies to men more than it does women. How would you guys feel after twenty years of lesson of "the teachings of Sister Young", "the teachings of Sister Hinkley," "the teachings of Sister Kimble." Get bored just thinking about it? Yeah, that is how women feel. I bet attendance would improve f the lessons were on "the teachings Of Sister Chiko O, the poems of Carol Lynn Pearson, even just stick to the RS presidents. How about we go back to lessons on motherhood, poetry, music, homemaking, child development, where the women get to split into smaller groups to attend the lesson they are most interested in. That was how it was when it was still a women's rganization. Now it is a men's organization for women.

alas wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:42 pm I bet attendance would improve f the lessons were on "the teachings Of Sister Chiko O, the poems of Carol Lynn Pearson, even just stick to the RS presidents. How about we go back to lessons on motherhood, poetry, music, homemaking, child development, where the women get to split into smaller groups to attend the lesson they are most interested in. That was how it was when it was still a women's rganization. Now it is a men's organization for women.

All of this sounds so lovely! I've never known RS without the teachings of the presidents series.

The church really doesn't have anything to offer women except second class citizenship. And the perspective converts are realizing that.

alas wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:42 pm

I think one reason women skip RS where men attend their quorum is the lessons. Consider that for the last GKHM (God knows how many) years the lessons in RS have been all about the lives of men. It used to be that the lessons were written by women for women and were actually about things that interested women. Now the lessons are just more stuff that applies to men more than it does women. How would you guys feel after twenty years of lesson of "the teachings of Sister Young", "the teachings of Sister Hinkley," "the teachings of Sister Kimble." Get bored just thinking about it? Yeah, that is how women feel. I bet attendance would improve f the lessons were on "the teachings Of Sister Chiko O, the poems of Carol Lynn Pearson, even just stick to the RS presidents. How about we go back to lessons on motherhood, poetry, music, homemaking, child development, where the women get to split into smaller groups to attend the lesson they are most interested in. That was how it was when it was still a women's rganization. Now it is a men's organization for women.

Preach!

Wonder if bringing back stake roadshow productions of Book of Mormon the Musical would help boost the numbers?

moksha wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:11 am Wonder if bringing back stake roadshow productions of Book of Mormon the Musical would help boost the numbers?

Some enterprising soul is already trying that with a movie project titled: Reign of Judges: Title of Liberty. This is not the first time that a serious Book of Mormon movie was attempted. We'll see if they can do any better.