NOM

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:38 am Elder Oaks reaffirmation might be in response to speculation that Mormons will at some point in the future let go of their policy against same-sex marriage. Elder Oaks sought to nail the LDS shoes into the corner with this for time and eternity pronouncement. I can understand his reasoning: Once the Soviet Union fell, there needed to be some issue to keep the LDS John Birch animus alive. Shifting their animosity from Commies to homos seemed to do the trick. This makes sense if you buy the argument that Mormons gotta hate on somebody.

Who changed the spell checker so that ApostleDallinOaks name comes up as Darth Vader? Change it back, please. I do not want to be disrespectful with my serious posts.

There is a spell checker? And I didn't think you had any serious posts.

Corsair wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:17 pm The talk from Oaks is the current front runner for the most despised talk of this conference. Reddit certainly is certainly collecting the anger towards Oaks this weekend.

Callister is gave him a run for the title

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:38 am Change it back, please. I do not want to be disrespectful with my serious posts.

I do.

The Russian's hacked this site over the weekend and caused a few glitches in the spell checker. Weird.

Korihor wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:21 pm

Corsair wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:17 pm The talk from Oaks is the current front runner for the most despised talk of this conference. Reddit certainly is certainly collecting the anger towards Oaks this weekend.

Callister is gave him a run for the title

I am with you on Oaks and Callister. On several occasions I have quoted Napoleon Bonaparte who stated, "Never interfere with your enemy when he is making a mistake." Oaks is going to cause severe emotional strife for a segment of the LDS world. I have not yet spoken with my wife how she has felt since then. Callister's Book of Mormon Uber Alles agreed and amplified with several other speakers on BoM status with the LDS church. It was only infuriating to the apostates. This resulted in quotes from Callister's talk showing up on my Facebook feed from the usual suspects.

Both Oaks and Callister represent a conservative, orthodox retrenchment intended to keep the faithful with a current temple recommend. Both make material claims that cannot be easily defended outside of one way preaching from the conference center. I will simply keep up my current set of LDS sins waiting for a believer to call me out in the name of Book of Mormon historicity and an anti-LGBT bulwark.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:07 pm Wasn't Oaks the president of BYU when they were shocking the genitals of young gay men? Did he have any direct input on this?

Yes he was president at the time. I'd have a hard time believing that he didn't know this was taking place at the university (I believe it came from the top....maybe Packer and Kimball involved too, but I can't remember for sure). There also a spy ring of students set up to turn anyone in who was suspected of being gay.

Of course Oaks takes no responsibility and it's never brought up that this was when he was president. But if you read any of the student's experiences, there was definitely abuse taking place, in my opinion. They were threatened with being expelled if they didn't submit to the horrible treatment that left them with burns and scars. But according to Oaks "we don't accept responsibility for those abuses" (from aversion therapy):

What do church leaders think of reparative therapy? LDS spokespeople do not allow interviews with church leaders on the topic. Instead, officials referred Bay Area News Group to online transcripts of interviews with high-ranking LDS officials Elder Dallin Oaks, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church, and Elder Lance Wickman, a member of the “Seventy.”

Oaks says the church “rarely takes a position on which treatment techniques are appropriate, for medical doctors or for psychiatrists or psychologists and so on.”

Oaks did not specifically mention aversion therapy at BYU or conducted by Mormon groups, but did mention it generally.

“The aversive therapies that have been used in connection with same-sex attraction have contained some serious abuses that have been recognized over time within the professions,” Oaks says. “While we have no position about what the medical doctors do, we are conscious that there are abuses and we don’t accept responsibility for those abuses.”

http://www.mercurynews.com/2011/03/17/m ... e-therapy/

Under Oaks, a system of surveillance and searches of dorms of problem students, including suspected homosexuals, was implemented. This included electronic recording devices which BYU Security Chief Robert Kelshaw confirmed in 1975 had been planted on students to gather information. In reference to the widespread campaign to find homosexuals among BYU students, Oaks stated, "Two influences we wish to exclude from the BYU community are active homosexuals and drug users, and these subjects are therefore among those with which our security force is concerned." In 1979 Oaks asked BYU security to be "especially watchful" for any student homosexual infractions.[ Stake outs by BYU security looking for license plates of BYU students at gay bars in Salt Lake City and fake contact advertisements placed in gay publications attempting to ensnare BYU students were also reported

From 1971 to 1980 BYU's president Dallin Oaks[ had Gerald J. Dye over the University Standards Office (renamed the Honor Code Office in 1991). Dye stated that during that decade part of the "set process" for homosexual BYU students referred to his office for "less serious" offenses was to require that they undergo some form of therapy to remain at BYU, and that in special cases this included "electroshock and vomiting aversion therapies"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Y ... BT_history

Apostle Oaks has been an influential figure in church interactions with homosexual people, instituting a system of surveillance to identify and expel or cure homosexual students as president of BYU in the '70s, and doing numerous important video interviews and articles on the topic in the '80s, '90s, and 2000s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexua ... day_Saints

Corsair wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:53 am Both Oaks and Callister represent a conservative, orthodox retrenchment intended to keep the faithful with a current temple recommend. Both make material claims that cannot be easily defended outside of one way preaching from the conference center. I will simply keep up my current set of LDS sins waiting for a believer to call me out in the name of Book of Mormon historicity and an anti-LGBT bulwark.

I'll see your "cannot be easily defended" and raise you to: They both make material claims that can easily be refuted outside of their one way preaching....

I love Oaks' older claim that “One generation of homosexual ‘marriages’ would depopulate a nation, and, if sufficiently widespread, would extinguish its people. Our marriage laws should not abet national suicide.” Well, homosexual ‘marriages’ have been legal for over 15 years in the Netherlands, they should be well on their way to being "extinguished" right? Oops. Absolutely not happening. No evidence whatsoever to defend Darth Bigot Oaks' prophetic claim.

we don’t accept responsibility for those abuses

Of course they don't. That's precisely the MO. Do and say horrible things and then fail to accept responsibility when they eventually bite you in the ass.

Is Dallin gay?

StarbucksMom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:42 pm Is Dallin gay?

Some have seriously wondered that.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:07 pm Wasn't Oaks the president of BYU when they were shocking the genitals of young gay men? Did he have any direct input on this?

Aversion therapy at BYU was given the green light by BYU President Ernest L. Wilkinson back in 1959. This aversion therapy program continued until 1983. BYU counselors, LDS bishops, stake presidents, mission presidents, general authorities, and the BYU Standards Office (equivalent to today's Honor Code Office) all referred young men to this BYU aversion therapy program. Oaks took over as BYU President in 1971 when this program was in full swing.

moksha wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:16 am

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:07 pm Wasn't Oaks the president of BYU when they were shocking the genitals of young gay men? Did he have any direct input on this?

Aversion therapy at BYU was given the green light by BYU President Ernest L. Wilkinson back in 1959. This aversion therapy program continued until 1983. BYU counselors, LDS bishops, stake presidents, mission presidents, general authorities, and the BYU Standards Office (equivalent to today's Honor Code Office) all referred young men to this BYU aversion therapy program. Oaks took over as BYU President in 1971 when this program was in full swing.

Here is a good history about this for anyone who wants to read it. It's excellent and thorough:

"Private Pain, Public Purges: A History of Homosexuality at Brigham Young University"

http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/byuhis

The Marriage Equality debate in Australia has been emotionally, mentally and spiritually draining. Seeing that reported on SBS Sexuality page on Facebook just made my head slump with sadness knowing that many close members of my family would side with him.

I assumed everyone I knew would be saddened by his talk. I made a comment on him doubling down on "the gays" and got told off by a sibling.

"I don't know why people think this will change! This is God's law! He is unchanging!" I was surprised and flippantly said, "yes! Just like blacks and the priesthood". That made this sibling furious and I was subjected to a lecture on my apostasy-well, I would have been but I interrupted, agreed and left the room.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:33 pmOf course they don't. That's precisely the MO. Do and say horrible things and then fail to accept responsibility when they eventually bite you in the ass.

Amen.

Elder Oaks is one of the smartest of the general authorities. If you have spent time around him as some of us have, you realize that this fellow is- or has been brilliant. He really helped launch "Dialogue, a Journal of Mormon Thought". He has a fresh uncluttered mind then. Sweet man with a good heart.

When is was with him, and the encounters were brief, he acted like an average likable guy, and I like him. That said, I don't always agree with him. This nonsense about how he feels about gay people is damaging. When he first spouted off a couple of years ago about this same topic I switched off the radio that I was listening to. I don't usually do that, but he crossed the line. I usually let the person finish the talk and then rant. Not any more.

I think he has done a lot of good for a lot of people, but sadly, now he doing just the opposite. He is setting the church and Mormons back a long ways with his rantings.

Even if, looks like Yoda, he does, he lacks Yoda's wisdom. Sad.

Hope he changes back to the guy he was before.