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Re: "And it came to pass" - evidence for BoM authenticity
Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:02 pm
by FiveFingerMnemonic
Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:04 am
FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:18 am
Find me the phrase "probationary state" in any hebrew writings and I'll be impressed. I can only find it repeatedly in Hopkinsian magazine sermon 1824. This whole sermon reads like Alma.
Interesting.
Here's how the word
probation is distributed in a scripture search on LDS.com:
Old Testament (0)
New Testament (0)
Book of Mormon (9)
Doctrine and Covenants (1)
Pearl of Great Price (0)
Study Helps (50)
And
Probationary:
Old Testament (0)
New Testament (0)
Book of Mormon (4)
Doctrine and Covenants (0)
Pearl of Great Price (0)
Study Helps (17)
Each instance of probationary is followed by the word state (3 instances) or time (1 instance). It's obviously a concept that the authors of the Study Helps really latched onto.
Bingo! This is one example of a 19th century only theological phrase that can be googled like Richard Bushman has pointed out in recent interviews or AMA's.
Re: "And it came to pass" - evidence for BoM authenticity
Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:35 pm
by orangganjil
EternityIsNow wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:26 pm
And it came to pass, LDS apologists began to wonder if Hebrew usage of 'it came to pass' was important... (this is an authentic post, from the original Hebrew, in case anyone is wondering, because I used 'and it came to pass'
).
More seriously, are these apologists not aware this is a key phrase in the NT, which is from the Greek? Just for fun, I ran a phrase search on Bible Gateway.
"and it came to pass" occurs
65 times in the New Testament, including the beginning of the story of the birth of Christ:
Luke 2King James Version (KJV)
2 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.
Being from the Greek, I assume this phrase is an attempt by the original NT authors or KJV translators to sound scriptural and OT-like. Unless this is also a common Greek phrase (anyone know?).
The phrase in Greek is "καὶ ἐγένετο" and translating it as "and it came to pass" is pretty accurate. "καὶ" is translated as "and" and "ἐγένετο", according to the
Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament, means, in this context, "come into being as an event or phenomenon from a point of origin, arise, come about, develop". It was often used as a narrative transition point and was not used in order to make the NT authors sound "OT-like". It was, however, used by Joseph Smith to make the Book of Mormon sound like authentic scripture.
Hope that helps.
Re: "And it came to pass" - evidence for BoM authenticity
Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:29 pm
by EternityIsNow
orangganjil wrote: ↑Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:35 pmThe phrase in Greek is "καὶ ἐγένετο" and translating it as "and it came to pass" is pretty accurate. "καὶ" is translated as "and" and "ἐγένετο", according to the
Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament, means, in this context, "come into being as an event or phenomenon from a point of origin, arise, come about, develop". It was often used as a narrative transition point and was not used in order to make the NT authors sound "OT-like". It was, however, used by Joseph Smith to make the Book of Mormon sound like authentic scripture.
Thanks for the clarification.