NOM

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:30 pm

Korihor wrote:

Corsair wrote:
Dude, you did not see the paragraph of less savory advice that I typed out and then deleted.

still probably pretty good.

Gee, get a room you two! It's nauseating!

I'm so lonely!

Maybe I should go get personal counseling to help figure myself out if she won't come along.

Thank you for sharing about your situation. I'm so sorry this is happening to you, and my heart goes out to you. Approximately the same thing happened to me some years ago. I wanted to go to counseling, and my husband thought it was unproductive. We never went to an LDS or religiously-affiliated counselor, but we went to a counselor that he didn't like. He just didn't hit it off with that one counselor, so he never wanted to find another counselor again. He just kept saying that it was "not productive."

So, I decided to go to counseling by myself, in order to get some professional feedback on my own behavior within the marriage. I found it to be very useful in "figuring myself out" as you say. When I started to get myself figured out, then I could get a sense of perspective on the dynamics of my relationship with my husband. In my case, we decided to separate for awhile and live apart, not with a formal divorce, but with an agreement between us about child custody, etc. ( btw, we later re-united, with a much better understanding of what we wanted in a marriage). So, regardless of what you decide about the marriage, I think your suggestion to get get personal counseling, ( try to find a non-LDS or secular counserlor) even if she won't come along, is a great idea. It really helped me a lot.
I do know how painful this situation can be. Sending you many positive thoughts for better times ahead. Best wishes to you, and please keep us posted. - Wndr.

All this breaks my heart for the people who are hurting (I too could have said the same for very short moments of despair in my life and marriage), and pisses me off at the church who is causing much of the hurting.

This is complicated. People outside of Mormonism have crappy, sexless, depressing marriages. She may need some help with personal happiness and fulfillment.

I decided I would fight for a happy marriage. I have divorced friends who, despite the drinking and exploratory sex, are miserable and lonely. They tell me to do whatever I have to keep it together. That greener grass is tempting but not worth the risk a lot of the time.

It can get better. We have changed so much. Before we had no common interests besides kids and football. Now we run together, play tennis together, watch Game of Thrones and mess around (a few years ago she would not have even considered that smut). We are working together. We also give each other space. We have had to talk about tough things, and that has at times lead to fights and emotional distance. It tales work, but for us, the marriage was more important.

Best of luck to you. Let me know if you ever want to chat on the phone.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:30 pm

Newme wrote:Not justifying that, but maybe (to give it your best before throwing in the towel) - compliment her, show her you prioritize her & really actively & empathically listen to her. For many women, that is how they feel close & then want to be sexually close.

This is so true and took months of therapy to understand and change. It's so worth it!

Thanks- glad you relate & are doing better in your marriage.

Linked, I would venture to guess a lot of us have walked, or continue to walk, a very similar path. For me my wife said she valued our marriage over the church, then eventually fully bought into walking away. Our problem is that half of our kids remain TBMs, one is a bishop. Between them there are 12 kids with two of their kids are on missions (another one going out early next year).

So, we are seen as having leprosy and have they distanced themselves from us. As an example, at three recent family gathering I make it a point of spending time one on one with each of the teenaged grandkids. Keep in mind I would NEVER discuss anything regarding the church with them. I would sit down with one and within minutes one of the mothers would be sitting next to us, apparently fearing I would give them the dreaded leprosy NOM disease. In one case one of the mother's literally began answering the questions!

I know this too will pass, but given the weddings, ordinations, endowments, etc. that will occur over the coming years, it hurts dramatically to be ostracized from them. That being said, I have long determined I cannot be a hypocrite and lie during recommend interviews any longer. That ship has sailed.

It is horrible the tactics the church uses to keep its members in check, and keep their membership numbers at a reasonable or acceptable level.

Thank you all. I think I have an idea for a path forward that will hopefully end in still being married and happy together. I am going to look into personal counseling for now, maybe I can get my wife on board later. We semi-committed to try together yesterday.

I will be open to the idea that one or both of us has clinical depression.

Corsair, I would love to see your "less savory advice".

Grace2Daisy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:29 pm Linked, I would venture to guess a lot of us have walked, or continue to walk, a very similar path. For me my wife said she valued our marriage over the church, then eventually fully bought into walking away. Our problem is that half of our kids remain TBMs, one is a bishop. Between them there are 12 kids with two of their kids are on missions (another one going out early next year).

So, we are seen as having leprosy and have they distanced themselves from us. As an example, at three recent family gathering I make it a point of spending time one on one with each of the teenaged grandkids. Keep in mind I would NEVER discuss anything regarding the church with them. I would sit down with one and within minutes one of the mothers would be sitting next to us, apparently fearing I would give them the dreaded leprosy NOM disease. In one case one of the mother's literally began answering the questions!

I know this too will pass, but given the weddings, ordinations, endowments, etc. that will occur over the coming years, it hurts dramatically to be ostracized from them. That being said, I have long determined I cannot be a hypocrite and lie during recommend interviews any longer. That ship has sailed.

It is horrible the tactics the church uses to keep its members in check, and keep their membership numbers at a reasonable or acceptable level.

At this point my wife does not value our marriage over the church, and if she is forced to choose one or the other I will not be the one chosen. It wasn't even a question. I can understand her viewpoint, I did the same thing to a girlfriend in college. She wants to distance herself from the apostate that could infect her family, and if I'm honest I could use less church in my life. But, we made a commitment to each other (in our minds if not officially), and we have kids so we will try to work it out.

That sounds weird with the teenage grandkid discussion supervision; I'm sorry you go through that. My siblings are just beginning to deal with me being disaffected and haven't gotten to that point yet, but if they start to worry that I'm infecting their kids I'm sure we will get there.