NOM

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:16 am Got Priesthood antenna?

It's very nice to get a picture of someone holding their actual and authorized priesthood antenna. Often searching for pictures based on these key words produces pictures that are blocked by content filters.

Oh yeh RED.....I love it.

That is the very room isn't it......

I have a different opinion about the "revelation" these guys receive, and I think I can support it with some credible evidence--but it IS NOT revelation from GOD (as we have been taught). So as to NOT derail the thread I started here, I do not want to share it.

Anyway....I like the pic. It brings it home......

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:16 am Got Priesthood antenna?

Elder Oaks seems pretty confident holding that antenna.

MoPag wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:28 pm

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:16 am Got Priesthood antenna?

Elder Oaks seems pretty confident holding that antenna.

Its a wand dude.

Made from Brigham's death cane.

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:22 pm

Give It Time wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:45 am The Q15 go to tithing settlement.

I've read various accounts of the Brethren being exempt from tithing in the sense that it would be like robbing Lucky Luciano to pay Joe Bonano. I guess going to tithing settlement would be more than just for show.

This also surprised me, I have always figured they were "above" tithing settlement, and they had no reason to go, because they don't pay tithing on what is basically tithing money to begin with. Are they going for appearances sake, or could it be they pay tithing on the money they make on other things such as book deals and such? This way they can still keep their salary's a secret.

Hmmm???

The GA's clearly don't pay tithing and there's no way in hell their ego lets them go to a local ward Bishop to declare their status.

They are EXEMPT.

Faith promoting rumors say they pay and declare. Reality and common sense says otherwise.

You folks are joking about the power of Oaks' Magic Wand???

I'd watch your back if I were you!

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:29 am Don't waste your sympathy on them. I mean really - they know the issues, they approved the essays.
They don't deserve your sympathy. They are not men of integrity. They are frauds, liars, and cheats - even if they are frauds, liars, and cheats who are friendly and kind to those around them.

I've got to plus one on this. The leaks showing how they make policy via powerpoint and not revelation via God. The approved apologetic materials that tell half truths with fluff. The tithing spent on land and other investments vs. humanitarianism and the secrecy therein. There may be some that are true koolaid drinkers at the top, thinking that it is really the Lord's work, but they are corporate guys running a corporation on the backs of sincere hard-working TMBs and that makes me mad and sad! It perpetuates ignorance of scientific facts and critical thinking, perpetuates misogyny, steals resources from the innocent and perpetuates extremist fundamentalist groups that exploit women, children and tax payers.

The more I learn about it and other religions like it, the more I want them to fade away into the sunset, just like our tails did when we climbed out of the trees and figured out how to use fire and tools.

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:04 pm

MoPag wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:28 pm

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:16 am Got Priesthood antenna?

Elder Oaks seems pretty confident holding that antenna.

Its a wand dude.

Made from Brigham's death cane.

Regarding tithing, you can see an old pay stub for Henry Eyring here: https://mormonleaks.io/newsroom/2017-01 ... documents/ . It appears that he was paying tithing. It's not exactly proof, but I don't think he had any reason to believe that his pay stub would be public, so I don't see any reason for him to lie about it. Now, we don't know about others. This could have been his private commitment. But, it seems very likely that tithing and tithing settlement might be a thing for the GA's especially hearing GiT's report.

I still don't have to like what they do. And I don't.

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:35 amA third possibility is they are trapped .

I honestly believe that the corporation has taken on a life of its own. Not even the top 15 control it. I think this sums it up quite well:

The unfortunate position of the current leaders of the LDS church is to occupy inherited positions, inherited traditions, inherited financial entanglements, and a political-social-religious-economic structure that depends on preserving the inheritance. Imagine how impossible a situation they occupy. Imagine how hard it would be for any single individual, or even cabal of several individuals, to change the course. It is an "new wine in old skins" problem all over again.

It would be easier for them to abandon it than it ever would be to fix it.

LostMormon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:25 pm

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:22 pm

Give It Time wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:45 am The Q15 go to tithing settlement.

I've read various accounts of the Brethren being exempt from tithing in the sense that it would be like robbing Lucky Luciano to pay Joe Bonano. I guess going to tithing settlement would be more than just for show.

This also surprised me, I have always figured they were "above" tithing settlement, and they had no reason to go, because they don't pay tithing on what is basically tithing money to begin with. Are they going for appearances sake, or could it be they pay tithing on the money they make on other things such as book deals and such? This way they can still keep their salary's a secret.

Paying on their social security and pension benefits?

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:32 pm Hmmm???

The GA's clearly don't pay tithing and there's no way in hell their ego lets them go to a local ward Bishop to declare their status.

They are EXEMPT.

Faith promoting rumors say they pay and declare. Reality and common sense says otherwise.

Doesn't one of the paystub leaks show that a ga paid tithing? (Mormon Leaks)



Edit: I see that Blazerb already mentioned it.

blazerb wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:56 pm Regarding tithing, you can see an old pay stub for Henry Eyring here: https://mormonleaks.io/newsroom/2017-01 ... documents/ . It appears that he was paying tithing. It's not exactly proof, but I don't think he had any reason to believe that his pay stub would be public, so I don't see any reason for him to lie about it. Now, we don't know about others. This could have been his private commitment. But, it seems very likely that tithing and tithing settlement might be a thing for the GA's especially hearing GiT's report.

I still don't have to like what they do. And I don't.

Random wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:13 pm Edit: I see that Blazerb already mentioned it.

blazerb wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:56 pm Regarding tithing, you can see an old pay stub for Henry Eyring here: https://mormonleaks.io/newsroom/2017-01 ... documents/ . It appears that he was paying tithing. It's not exactly proof, but I don't think he had any reason to believe that his pay stub would be public, so I don't see any reason for him to lie about it. Now, we don't know about others. This could have been his private commitment. But, it seems very likely that tithing and tithing settlement might be a thing for the GA's especially hearing GiT's report.

I still don't have to like what they do. And I don't.

Hold on a moment. It shows tithing on his pay stub?....he like did a direct deposit for tithing?

I don't have time to look at this, but this is QUITE interesting--the corp has a way to just divert money back into the coffers via direct deposit or something?...

Is he paying on his gross, net, or what?...THAT is what is interesting to me if we have the info.

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:04 pm--but it IS NOT revelation from GOD (as we have been taught).

The Brethren have given us enough evidence that they do not really receive revelation in the way we had once expected. President Hinkley used the construction of the Confrence Center as evidence that he receives revelation. When the interviewer asked him again if God told him to build it he said, "I think so." Elder Holland gave us the Wrong Road story where he tacitly admitted that he doesn't trust his own revelation and sometimes needs to have God lie to him first in case he mistakenly follows a feeling that wasn't really a revelation. Elder Cook (IIRC) said that it is very difficult to distinguish between revelation and our own feelings...

Imagine being someone who loves the church so much that you devote your life to moving up the ranks, and you just happen to have the kind of personality and experience that fits the mold. When you get to the top and find that it isn't what you expected what are you going to do? You are going to do exactly what Mormons and Mormon apologists do every day, you're going to reinvent your expectations, rather than abandon them, so you can keep the wheel turning. You certainly aren't going to declare that your entire life has been a dead-end street. You aren't going to disappoint millions of believers, family, and admirers by announcing that it's all a crock. But more importantly, you aren't going to admit to yourself that it's a crock. You make it what you need it to be.

Plus there are those NDAs, perks and incentives to keep you going. And who wants to go down in history as the guy who left the fridge door open and spoiled the Thanksgiving turkey?

We NOM types ask "why doesn't a GA just stand up and tell us it's all a fraud?" Assuming some of them know it's a fraud, we have to remember that they are in their position precisely because they are not like NOMs. We get ourselves in trouble by being the kind of people who can't make ourselves believe something when the evidence outweighs the claims. Those kinds of people get weeded out very early in the process.

Here's a question for you.

Do you think the GAs speak frankly to each other about problems and doubts, or are they all playing along, making sure not to show any cracks, and/or trying to upstage each other?

Can you imagine Elder X saying to Elder Y, "Man, I am really troubled about the Book of Mormon facsimiles. I just don't know if I can make myself go along with it any longer." Or do they do what people in my ward do and respond to any problems with stiff upper lip testimony?

And is there a full time psychological counseling staff on hand to keep GAs feeling ok about everything?

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:23 am Here's a question for you.

Do you think the GAs speak frankly to each other about problems and doubts, or are they all playing along, making sure not to show any cracks, and/or trying to upstage each other?

Can you imagine Elder X saying to Elder Y, "Man, I am really troubled about the Book of Mormon facsimiles. I just don't know if I can make myself go along with it any longer." Or do they do what people in my ward do and respond to any problems with stiff upper lip testimony?

And is there a full time psychological counseling staff on hand to keep GAs feeling ok about everything?

I think they sometimes do share openly, but guardedly. I have read that BH Roberts did that, and the Q12 who heard the report went white in the face. He then stifled it and bore a testimony that would appear a lie for the rest of his life.

If these men share such things, I do NOT believe it is in the open, and it would ONLY be between established, even conspiratorially PRIVATE friendships.

For example, NO WAY could one of these guys share something of doubt with the likes of Boyd Packer. That would have been a really REALLY bad thing, in my opinion. But, who else could they share things with?

Part of the "it sucks" issue is possibly some of these guys do have doubts or flat out "this is a lie" feeling--but they are completely closeted out; there is no one they can share it with--NO ONE. They can't share it with their wife, and with their close friends?...nada. Too many times close friends have divulged,...so they keep it cloistered away.

Yep...sucks for them. But, look at the reward they get?...money, prestige, adoration and even worship....and all they have to do is keep their mouth shut.

I am also of the opinion that some of these guys believe the apologetic line--I'm not so sure they are all that smart the Q15. I think some of them are just going along, caught in their own delusion.

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:24 am Hold on a moment. It shows tithing on his pay stub?....he like did a direct deposit for tithing?

I don't have time to look at this, but this is QUITE interesting--the corp has a way to just divert money back into the coffers via direct deposit or something?...

Is he paying on his gross, net, or what?...THAT is what is interesting to me if we have the info.

It was not an automatic withholding. He wrote on the pay stub what he owed in tithing. Then he put a little check mark to show he paid it. If I remember, he was paying on gross.

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:01 amI have read that BH Roberts did that, and the Q12 who heard the report went white in the face. He then stifled it and bore a testimony that would appear a lie for the rest of his life.

But that was 100 years ago. I think the environment has changed immensely since then. There was a time when apostles and prophets openly and hotly debated points of doctrine too, but those days are long gone. I think they had a lot more control over their lives then, but now they are cogs in a machine which gives them very little personal freedom.

blazerb wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:05 am

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:24 am Hold on a moment. It shows tithing on his pay stub?....he like did a direct deposit for tithing?

I don't have time to look at this, but this is QUITE interesting--the corp has a way to just divert money back into the coffers via direct deposit or something?...

Is he paying on his gross, net, or what?...THAT is what is interesting to me if we have the info.

It was not an automatic withholding. He wrote on the pay stub what he owed in tithing. Then he put a little check mark to show he paid it. If I remember, he was paying on gross.

I can't view those, as they are blocked where I work, but I would be interested in knowing the amount, a simple calculation should tell you how much they make a year.