It's that time of the every-other-year again

[Hagoth]

So, my two cents is do this for your wife, because she makes sacrifices you don't see, because you love her, because it's her birthday and it's the only gift she wants and if you do it grudgingly it will have been better for you not to have done it, at all.

Thanks so much for your insights, Give It Time.

I really did get the perfect storm on leadership roulette. I did exactly what I had planned with the bishop, I explained all of the caveats about the nuances I was going to apply to the questions and said, "so let's do it and I'll just give the expected yes/no answers."

I actually had a great talk with the SP. I told him about all of the times I had prayed about the BoM, the restoration, and Joseph Smith, and how it seemed like God had consistently told me in no uncertain terms on each occasion that the church is NOT true. I said I had finally to the conclusion that the burning-bosom vs. stupor-of-thought method for yes/no divination simply doesn't work (for me, at least) and that I believe it's just one part of your brain confirming what another part had already figured out. He more or less agreed.

I also shared a little more about my experience of losing my testimony. We talked about Elder Holland's message when he spoke at our stake conference, about staying in the boat no matter how savagely the storm rages, because if you let go you'll be lost in the storm. I told him about how, the moment I let go, I found myself standing knee-deep in calm water watching a bunch of people jumping up and down in the boat creating the illusion of a storm, and that I have been much happier and more at peace with myself since I mentally stepped out of the boat. He appreciated the honesty.

So, look at me. I'm a recommend holder again.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. when he handed me the obligatory correct-use-of-garments card to read I skimmed it and said, "I gotta tell you, I think this is kind of creepy. Don't you think it's a little bit cultish that I have to satisfy two other middle-aged men that I'm wearing my underwear appropriately?" He admitted that it made him uncomfortable, especially with women.

Anyway, birthday wish fulfilled. On with my life.

[Give It Time]

So, my two cents is do this for your wife, because she makes sacrifices you don't see, because you love her, because it's her birthday and it's the only gift she wants and if you do it grudgingly it will have been better for you not to have done it, at all.

Thanks so much for your insights, Give It Time.

I really did get the perfect storm on leadership roulette. I did exactly what I had planned with the bishop, I explained all of the caveats about the nuances I was going to apply to the questions and said, "so let's do it and I'll just give the expected yes/no answers."

I actually had a great talk with the SP. I told him about all of the times I had prayed about the BoM, the restoration, and Joseph Smith, and how it seemed like God had consistently told me in no uncertain terms on each occasion that the church is NOT true. I said I had finally to the conclusion that the burning-bosom vs. stupor-of-thought method for yes/no divination simply doesn't work (for me, at least) and that I believe it's just one part of your brain confirming what another part had already figured out. He more or less agreed.

I also shared a little more about my experience of losing my testimony. We talked about Elder Holland's message when he spoke at our stake conference, about staying in the boat no matter how savagely the storm rages, because if you let go you'll be lost in the storm. I told him about how, the moment I let go, I found myself standing knee-deep in calm water watching a bunch of people jumping up and down in the boat creating the illusion of a storm, and that I have been much happier and more at peace with myself since I mentally stepped out of the boat. He appreciated the honesty.

So, look at me. I'm a recommend holder again.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. when he handed me the obligatory correct-use-of-garments card to read I skimmed it and said, "I gotta tell you, I think this is kind of creepy. Don't you think it's a little bit cultish that I have to satisfy two other middle-aged men that I'm wearing my underwear appropriately?" He admitted that it made him uncomfortable, especially with women.

Anyway, birthday wish fulfilled. On with my life.

This is so fantastic! I wish more leaders in the church were like this.

What I love about this is that you can go to your wife with your recommend and your dignity intact.

I think your wife knows she's asking a huge thing of you and appreciates you did this for her.

I wish there could be more stories like this in the church.

[Enoch Witty]

So, my two cents is do this for your wife, because she makes sacrifices you don't see, because you love her, because it's her birthday and it's the only gift she wants and if you do it grudgingly it will have been better for you not to have done it, at all.

Anyway, birthday wish fulfilled. On with my life.

Oh, man. This is the best post. You got to be honest but you also got to give your wife what she wants. A truly feel-good story. Thanks for sharing. Hopefully you placed some subtle cracks in the SP's shelf; it certainly sounds like they might already be there anyway.

[Lady_Macbeth]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. when he handed me the obligatory correct-use-of-garments card to read I skimmed it and said, "I gotta tell you, I think this is kind of creepy. Don't you think it's a little bit cultish that I have to satisfy two other middle-aged men that I'm wearing my underwear appropriately?" He admitted that it made him uncomfortable, especially with women.

I wish my leaders handed out a card to read to women. The counselor looked deep into my eyes reciting the whole correct-use-of-garments garble that he had memorized. The stake pres read me the card glancing up at my expressions every other word. It was incredibly uncomfortable.

I asked spouse when we were done what his experience was since he met with bishop - he gave him the card to read and so did the stake pres!

[Grace2Daisy]

I received a call from the Executive Secretary saying the rolls indicated I was due to come in and have my recommend renewed. I told him I did not see the need to do that given I didn't see any reason to go to the temple. He asked why I felt that way, and I said, "I've already been through for myself, I've already received my blessings and made my covenants. I don't feel the need to go back for someone I don't know, nor care about, making covenants they may or may not want." He asked if he could pass that message on to the Bishop (nice of him to ask, but I'm betting he would have anyway). I told him most certainly.

A few days later we got a call from the ES my wife an I to meet with the Bishop. I thought. . . . . here we go! Since I had recently been released from the HC he asked if I would teach GD. I told him no for two reasons, number one Brother so & so loved that calling and I think it would be ridiculous to release him. And, number two, I'm the last person you want teaching GD, because I would not pull punches. He looked and me and asked what I meant, I gave him a couple of examples and he stood up, walked to the door and ended the meeting. He never mentioned the recommend. That's the last time we've heard from the Bishop.

[Hagoth]

I gave him a couple of examples and he stood up, walked to the door and ended the meeting.

The adult equivalent of putting your finders in your ears and shouting "la la la la."

[oliblish]

I renewed mine last year to be able to attend my daughter's wedding. That's the last time I'm going to do it.

[Snowdrop]

It's an awkward time of the every other year. I am planning to play along until my last unmarried sibling ties the knot.

[Hagoth]

ISo, my two cents is do this for your wife, because she makes sacrifices you don't see, because you love her, because it's her birthday and it's the only gift she wants and if you do it grudgingly it will have been better for you not to have done it, at all.

Sorry it took me a almost a month to respond, Give It Time. I really appreciate your thoughtful words, and you're right, it didn't take that much effort and it has made my wife happy.

It is really hard to play along with the most secretive, cultish parts of Mormonism when they know you aren't able to make yourself participate in many of the basic day-to-day parts, but we find ourselves in this position because the church has inserted itself so deeply into our most intimate and significant relationship. This is what I hate most. I am not married to the church, but the church certainly behaves as if I am, and they punish my sweet wife for it, as if my inability to believe in angels with gold books is a form of infidelity toward her. Ugh. The last thing I want in this world is to cause her pain, so here I am, a non-believing recommend bearer. In the end it's well worth it, considering how much support I get from her in so many ways.

[Dravin]

Once I no longer believed I don't think I could have maintained a temple recommend without feeling like I was sacrificing my integrity. I'm not trying to attack those who nuance their way through a temple recommend interview (particularly if the interviewers are helping), but for me a request like that would have been met with, "I don't feel like I can get a temple recommend and maintain my integrity even if the Bishop and Stake President were on board. Let's talk about this."

[Give It Time]

ISo, my two cents is do this for your wife, because she makes sacrifices you don't see, because you love her, because it's her birthday and it's the only gift she wants and if you do it grudgingly it will have been better for you not to have done it, at all.

Sorry it took me a almost a month to respond, Give It Time. I really appreciate your thoughtful words, and you're right, it didn't take that much effort and it has made my wife happy.

It is really hard to play along with the most secretive, cultish parts of Mormonism when they know you aren't able to make yourself participate in many of the basic day-to-day parts, but we find ourselves in this position because the church has inserted itself so deeply into our most intimate and significant relationship. This is what I hate most. I am not married to the church, but the church certainly behaves as if I am, and they punish my sweet wife for it, as if my inability to believe in angels with gold books is a form of infidelity toward her. Ugh. The last thing I want in this world is to cause her pain, so here I am, a non-believing recommend bearer. In the end it's well worth it, considering how much support I get from her in so many ways.

I am really glad to hear this.

Way to take one for the team.

[Hagoth]

Once I no longer believed I don't think I could have maintained a temple recommend without feeling like I was sacrificing my integrity. I'm not trying to attack those who nuance their way through a temple recommend interview (particularly if the interviewers are helping), but for me a request like that would have been met with, "I don't feel like I can get a temple recommend and maintain my integrity even if the Bishop and Stake President were on board. Let's talk about this."

I totally understand. Everyone's on a different path and at a different place on that path, and we're all just trying to navigate it with the least carnage. In my case, I told my wife there was no way they would give me a recommend and that I didn't want to lie about anything. She said, "please just try." I did. They gave me one.

[Idontknowanymore]

My recommmend expires this month which is unfortunate. I just stopped paying tithing like three months ago. I was finally, FINALLY able to put some real cash into my savings account!! But my DW doesn't know I stopped paying. I'm really not sure how to navigate this one. If she found out I stopped paying she would probably be pretty upset.

[Red Ryder]

My recommmend expires this month which is unfortunate. I just stopped paying tithing like three months ago. I was finally, FINALLY able to put some real cash into my savings account!! But my DW doesn't know I stopped paying. I'm really not sure how to navigate this one. If she found out I stopped paying she would probably be pretty upset.

The way I see it, you paid tithing according to your conscious and it's between you and god what is considered a full tithe. A three month "gap" shouldn't disqualify you if you consider you paid too much in advance and it will even out. There's a million ways to rationalize it so pick the best one. Then do the TR interview to renew if you need/want to, claim full status at settlement, then worry about it later.

When I stopped paying I told the wife I was putting it into a savings account and was willing to pay at the end of the year after we figured out our taxes. Your wife may agree to this approach which buys you time. You should talk it over though before she finds out on her own.

After a year of saving, my wife was more concerned with her ability to be a full tithe payer and talked to the bishop who said she was considered full if she paid on her income. With a part time job, it wasn't much but she was able to maintain her TR and status. I stopped after that with her unspoken blessing. She benefits from her TR and the increase in our savings. It's a win win!

One other strategy is to switch over to be an "anonymous" tithe payer and set it up so that your ward isn't notified of your contributions. You can claim whatever status you want.

[Sheamus Moore]

...then worry about it later.

Later as in, it'll get sorted out in the eternities?

Fortunately, DW and I came to a 'new understanding' of what a full tithe means. If we were to stop paying completely (which I don't think she would want to do) and not renew our recommends that expire shortly, it would send up too many red flags. I have no real desire to renew so I'm not sure what will happen when the pestering begins. I'm hoping to fly under radar for as long as possible.

[Anon70]

[quote="Red Ryder" post_id=26835
One other strategy is to switch over to be an "anonymous" tithe payer and set it up so that your ward isn't notified of your contributions. You can claim whatever status you want.
[/quote]
Someone on Reddit is saying they're now notified of your contributions even if you mark confidential. Anyone know if that's true?

[Anon70]

On lds.org it no longer says confidential. It just allows you to select that the ward does not need to print your donation statement.

[Corsair]

On lds.org it no longer says confidential. It just allows you to select that the ward does not need to print your donation statement.

I will have to check that box. My wife still donates in my name as a married couple so my donations are non-zero.

[wtfluff]

One other strategy is to switch over to be an "anonymous" tithe payer and set it up so that your ward isn't notified of your contributions. You can claim whatever status you want.

Someone on Reddit is saying they're now notified of your contributions even if you mark confidential. Anyone know if that's true?

I don't think donations through "lds.org" were ever completely confidential. The confidential version of online donations had to be set up via your bank's bill-pay if I understand correctly.

[Anon70]

One other strategy is to switch over to be an "anonymous" tithe payer and set it up so that your ward isn't notified of your contributions. You can claim whatever status you want.

Someone on Reddit is saying they're now notified of your contributions even if you mark confidential. Anyone know if that's true?

I don't think donations through "lds.org" were ever completely confidential. The confidential version of online donations had to be set up via your bank's bill-pay if I understand correctly.

The last several years our printout showed zero even though we paid. We pay directly to SLC via bill pay. I guess we'll see when DH goes to TS next week. I already said I'm not going. The Bishop has an idea of what my DH makes. We paid a little over 10% on his gross. I work. No one knows what I make but....if I were the bishop and saw the amount, I would question our full tithe paying status. The agreement DH and I have is to go on surplus but I know it worries him so I do 10% on his gross. Someday I hope to do way less. Like nothing.